A question about octave smoothing
01-19-2004, 09:48 AM
#11
500 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 871
Adam, FOCAL sells an acoustical dampening material which helps to reduce the back-wave of the woofer. It's supposed to be placed behind the woofer.
What do you mean when you say that the installation can kill the UTOPIA woofer???
Once you're finished your car, you will be ready to take on the big guns in the USA such as Mark Eldridge. You are definately putting alot of attention into your car, and you will be justly rewarded for all of your efforts.
What do you mean when you say that the installation can kill the UTOPIA woofer???
Once you're finished your car, you will be ready to take on the big guns in the USA such as Mark Eldridge. You are definately putting alot of attention into your car, and you will be justly rewarded for all of your efforts.
01-19-2004, 03:29 PM
#13
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 42
Originally posted by Keith:
Adam, FOCAL sells an acoustical dampening material which helps to reduce the back-wave of the woofer. It's supposed to be placed behind the woofer.
What do you mean when you say that the installation can kill the UTOPIA woofer???
Once you're finished your car, you will be ready to take on the big guns in the USA such as Mark Eldridge. You are definately putting alot of attention into your car, and you will be justly rewarded for all of your efforts.
Adam, FOCAL sells an acoustical dampening material which helps to reduce the back-wave of the woofer. It's supposed to be placed behind the woofer.
What do you mean when you say that the installation can kill the UTOPIA woofer???
Once you're finished your car, you will be ready to take on the big guns in the USA such as Mark Eldridge. You are definately putting alot of attention into your car, and you will be justly rewarded for all of your efforts.
01-20-2004, 08:42 PM
#15
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
Keith, if you are referring to “Black Hole” product, I’ve used it before in another application. The down side is that that it’s over 2” thick, and is not very flexible. It does help deaden a high energy sub enclosure, but it’s construction (multi layer with solid material in middle) requires that you increase the enclosure’s internal volume.
Dave, I've got a ton of CAE product in my car. I love it. VB2-HD, VB4, and VB1-S. I’ve played with the Deflex pads a bit, interesting material. Kind of like those sticky ***** you can throw against a wall. I'll be testing in the spring with an RTA to see how they work.
But...
The back waves that I'm the most concerned about are for my 4" Utopia midranges. The motor structure is quite large, so that leaves a about a 1" gap on the side of the driver for energy to "escape". Mounting the driver in any conventional baffle blocks a large amount of that directly.(3/4" to 1" baffle) What I'm looking at doing, is machining a 1/8" aluminium trim ring to give it some more breathing room. Kind of a "pre-baffle" if you like. I'm trying to give the midrange as much breathing room as I can, but I may have to sacrifice enclosure volume for the sake of path length. I’m still toying with the idea that Steve Brown used in his E36 M3, welding an enclosure into the kick area that is inset into the frame.
I don't think that the Focal Utopias would be more sensitive than any other driver with regards to the installation. So far I've had the midranges mounted 3 different ways, and each time I had a different tonal characteristic. The big issue to me, is cone break up. I don't find that installation plays as big a roll as cone material with this matter. The Utopias just blow me away in this regard. There are some better tonally balanced drivers out there, but I have never heard anything as dynamically stable as the Utopias. They can crank out Saxophone, or Tenor vocals without flinching. If anybody has ever cringed hearing a strong choral passage or a saxophone solo, it was probably the result of cone break up.(provided the amp wasn't clipping) I've got so much to try, and so much of that to tune, that I'll be busy well into next fall. I don't think that I'll be competing for a while, but when I do, I should be competitive. I don't have the illusion of winning though, the power class that I’d fall into when I'm done has all the heavy hitters in it. I figure I'll be adding at least another 300 to 500 watts of amplification to my existing 2500. Yes it IS an SQ car!(a well tuned 12 and 200watts would beat me in SPL) It's the dynamic headroom I'm after, not the boom. Lets' just say I can make you blink with a snare drum.
Adam
Dave, I've got a ton of CAE product in my car. I love it. VB2-HD, VB4, and VB1-S. I’ve played with the Deflex pads a bit, interesting material. Kind of like those sticky ***** you can throw against a wall. I'll be testing in the spring with an RTA to see how they work.
But...
The back waves that I'm the most concerned about are for my 4" Utopia midranges. The motor structure is quite large, so that leaves a about a 1" gap on the side of the driver for energy to "escape". Mounting the driver in any conventional baffle blocks a large amount of that directly.(3/4" to 1" baffle) What I'm looking at doing, is machining a 1/8" aluminium trim ring to give it some more breathing room. Kind of a "pre-baffle" if you like. I'm trying to give the midrange as much breathing room as I can, but I may have to sacrifice enclosure volume for the sake of path length. I’m still toying with the idea that Steve Brown used in his E36 M3, welding an enclosure into the kick area that is inset into the frame.
I don't think that the Focal Utopias would be more sensitive than any other driver with regards to the installation. So far I've had the midranges mounted 3 different ways, and each time I had a different tonal characteristic. The big issue to me, is cone break up. I don't find that installation plays as big a roll as cone material with this matter. The Utopias just blow me away in this regard. There are some better tonally balanced drivers out there, but I have never heard anything as dynamically stable as the Utopias. They can crank out Saxophone, or Tenor vocals without flinching. If anybody has ever cringed hearing a strong choral passage or a saxophone solo, it was probably the result of cone break up.(provided the amp wasn't clipping) I've got so much to try, and so much of that to tune, that I'll be busy well into next fall. I don't think that I'll be competing for a while, but when I do, I should be competitive. I don't have the illusion of winning though, the power class that I’d fall into when I'm done has all the heavy hitters in it. I figure I'll be adding at least another 300 to 500 watts of amplification to my existing 2500. Yes it IS an SQ car!(a well tuned 12 and 200watts would beat me in SPL) It's the dynamic headroom I'm after, not the boom. Lets' just say I can make you blink with a snare drum.
Adam
01-20-2004, 09:18 PM
#16
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
Dave, I just wanted to comment on the waterfall plots you posted.
If you look at the plotting, you see a cut off starting early in the lower freq. range and later towards the higher frequencies. The data in that area does exist, but it's highly influenced by reflections. The object of the test is to show source decay, not enviromental decay. The cut off is placed where the predicted environmental decay would influence the data.
Keith, thanks for the compliment. Right now I'm getting hell from my Dad on the sound of the system. He's stopped evaluating it as a car system, and is now comparing it to the best home systems he's heard.(And those are pretty freaking good) So right now in his book I've got a crappy system. The upside is that he's given me one of his testing computers to mount in the car for testing. And, I"ve now got one hell of a set of critical ears on my back.
I was originaly going to put a MLSSA setup in the car to measure phase characteristics, but after looking at the extreme interferance of near field reflections, I gave up on that and will use my ears to tune phase.
Adam
If you look at the plotting, you see a cut off starting early in the lower freq. range and later towards the higher frequencies. The data in that area does exist, but it's highly influenced by reflections. The object of the test is to show source decay, not enviromental decay. The cut off is placed where the predicted environmental decay would influence the data.
Keith, thanks for the compliment. Right now I'm getting hell from my Dad on the sound of the system. He's stopped evaluating it as a car system, and is now comparing it to the best home systems he's heard.(And those are pretty freaking good) So right now in his book I've got a crappy system. The upside is that he's given me one of his testing computers to mount in the car for testing. And, I"ve now got one hell of a set of critical ears on my back.
I was originaly going to put a MLSSA setup in the car to measure phase characteristics, but after looking at the extreme interferance of near field reflections, I gave up on that and will use my ears to tune phase.
Adam
01-21-2004, 11:22 AM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks bootleg.. Though, I still claim I make this stuff up!
PEI.. Focal drivers are really flat within the frequency range they were designed to operate. They go berzerk outside that. I was floored at how good they sounded in Focal's auditioning room in France. What was even more amazing was they the first speakers I listened to used PolyKevlar style drivers. I loved them. Switching to the W-cones (a la Utopia), the tonal balance stayed the same, but the whole speaker sped up. Bass and midbass was tighter and faster with less overhang. Marvelous!
The idea of creating a spacer ring for your mids is cool! Go for it, but use something thick and heavy like 1/4-inch stainless. I like!
PEI.. Focal drivers are really flat within the frequency range they were designed to operate. They go berzerk outside that. I was floored at how good they sounded in Focal's auditioning room in France. What was even more amazing was they the first speakers I listened to used PolyKevlar style drivers. I loved them. Switching to the W-cones (a la Utopia), the tonal balance stayed the same, but the whole speaker sped up. Bass and midbass was tighter and faster with less overhang. Marvelous!
The idea of creating a spacer ring for your mids is cool! Go for it, but use something thick and heavy like 1/4-inch stainless. I like!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Muckaluck
General Discussion
15
06-27-2004 02:49 AM
