SQ improvement with ARC SE Amps
09-29-2010, 01:07 PM
#41
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 730
09-29-2010, 02:56 PM
#42
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 16,855
lol, I guess we do... 
I'll just say this: regardless of what side I am on, I'm right, those who oppose me suck and obviously are deaf or delusional depending on my point of view of the topic, and nobody is going to tell me different!!
I'll just say this: regardless of what side I am on, I'm right, those who oppose me suck and obviously are deaf or delusional depending on my point of view of the topic, and nobody is going to tell me different!!
09-29-2010, 04:49 PM
#43
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 730
....................
....................j/k
09-29-2010, 04:50 PM
#44
09-29-2010, 07:07 PM
#46
When I said I don't believe in psycho acoustics, I was referring to myself. I don't feel I effected by my eyes when listening to audio gear. I know people can sometimes hear with their eyes, but for the most part these are the easily manipulated or poorly educated (in audio) listeners. I trust my ears and only my ears. I have no bias about a products price or it's name. I've been doing this too long to care about such things.
Speaker choice and placement are the most important part of any audio system. No question there. But other equipment can have an effect as well in my opinion.
This will sound a little arrogant, but I don't bother listening to anyones opinion but my own when it comes to audio. That isn't to say I don't hear what is
being said, just that if I can't hear the difference, all the technical mumbo jumbo is meaningless. I trust my ears and no ones elses.
being said, just that if I can't hear the difference, all the technical mumbo jumbo is meaningless. I trust my ears and no ones elses.
If science is meaningless, then how could someone know how to make a great sounding amp... or a poor sounding one? You will say they can hear if it is good or not, that's not the question, the question is how would they know how to build this good sounding amp without the science part? Do you believe they simply take one part and keep changing it out until it "sounds" best to some golden ear guy and then keep moving along the amplifiers parts switching them until it sounds the best? Please tell me how this goes.
Part of the problem is also that most listeners don't have the experience to tell the difference between sounds. I can't tell you what ingredients are in most of my meals, but I know some people can, simply by tasting.
And as cheesy as it sounds audio is more than FR graphs. Music is not a science, it's emotion and passion. No test gear is able to do what the ear and mind can do.
I agree that the emotion and passion part comes from the listener (the part I have been referring to as psycho-acoustics). This part cannot be "computerized" BUT we have found a way to ensure that these things get removed from scientific testing.... yup blind\abx tests.
In reality, scientifically, there is nothing that we can't explain about an amplifier and what it is playing. BUT the human mind can manipulate one's perception. This is indeed a big step forward because our mind, the final step in listening, can easily be manipulated by many things such as :mood, expectations, prejudice, prior experiences...
Bottom line, anyone who thinks they aren't bias in some way or form is wrong and many tests have proved it time and time again. It's part of human nature. To dismiss it is to allow ones self to remain in the dark age and bask in a nice pool of meaningless ignorance.
Say yes to science and understanding how things work, say no to voodoo and believing that things just "are".
09-29-2010, 07:16 PM
#47
-SQ is subjective
-How accurate something is to the original is something we can quantify and this is the opposite of something that is subjective.
What you quoted literally means nothing.
Music, is simply sounds just like any other non musical sounds we hear every day, there is nothing special about a musical sound to any other sound.
Music: Easily measurable\recordable\reproducible sound, just like any other sound.
Emotions: Any strong feeling felt from any stimulus... amongst the huge list of stimulus is indeed sound.
Don't be confused by these 2 separate things.
09-29-2010, 08:01 PM
#48
Narrow minded? Hardly!
THIS is the epitome of narrow mindedness:
So here is a great opportunity for some to gain knowledge. Its perfect for this topic:
Audio Musings by Sean Olive: The Dishonesty of Sighted Listening Tests
The above is not a nobody, this was a study conducted by harman with harman employees. Still choose to ignore psycho accoustics and not "beleive in it"? This is silly....
THIS is the epitome of narrow mindedness:
So here is a great opportunity for some to gain knowledge. Its perfect for this topic:
Audio Musings by Sean Olive: The Dishonesty of Sighted Listening Tests
The above is not a nobody, this was a study conducted by harman with harman employees. Still choose to ignore psycho accoustics and not "beleive in it"? This is silly....
"Here's the real deal...speakers don't matter, so long as they don't really suck and so long as the system includes tweeters."
Quit drinking the Kool-Aid ...lol
09-29-2010, 08:49 PM
#49
Man threw all these posts the one thing that has to confuse me the most is how swapping your HAT speakers to pioneer would equal better sound quality but switching amps wont? That to me is just bananas
Speaking of bananas i guess all these amp companys that offer upgrades to there opamps and all other kinds of internal compenents are just milking customers even further? I mean if swapping amps wont make a difference then by the same logic swapping some internals around in the same amp must be an even bigger waste of money.
Speaking of bananas i guess all these amp companys that offer upgrades to there opamps and all other kinds of internal compenents are just milking customers even further? I mean if swapping amps wont make a difference then by the same logic swapping some internals around in the same amp must be an even bigger waste of money.
09-29-2010, 10:42 PM
#50
I respect AAAAAAA's opinion. It's not the first time a person has said one piece of electronics is no different than another. I don't believe thAt more expensive means better or less expensive is poorer in quality. A well engineered product is well engineered product. And I personally have no issue with science or gaining knowledge by or through science. I simply don't put all my "faith" in to one arena.
For the record, I have done A/B testing. It's actually how I chose some of my gear. The tests are done blind ( in my case in the dark, which is how I often listen to music). You don't think I came to my conclusions on a whim do you?
I guess I have a question for you. Do all amplifiers, or other electronic devices, produce the exact same sound if connected to the same speakers in the same listening room? Will tonality change? Will staging change?Please explain.
I hope this discussion continues. It's quite fun to discuss this stuff with others who enjoy it.
For the record, I have done A/B testing. It's actually how I chose some of my gear. The tests are done blind ( in my case in the dark, which is how I often listen to music). You don't think I came to my conclusions on a whim do you?
I guess I have a question for you. Do all amplifiers, or other electronic devices, produce the exact same sound if connected to the same speakers in the same listening room? Will tonality change? Will staging change?Please explain.
I hope this discussion continues. It's quite fun to discuss this stuff with others who enjoy it.
