Sql 101
03-15-2008, 12:26 PM
#1
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Sql 101
I had to register seeing so many SQL threads. If you're seeking a SQL system keep this in mind. You will not win any SQ events and you will not win any SPL events, it's pretty much half assing both. This is unless you're competing against people who have no idea what they're doing or are also doing SQL. Anybody even remotely moderate will beat you.
You simply can't have the best of both worlds. That's like saying I want a car that I can race on the track (such as a porche) but I also want to be able to carry 8 people in it (like an SUV). What do you get? A crossover where you can't have 8 people nor can you race.
So SQL, it will not be that great in SQ because of the "L" and it won't be as loud because of the "SQ". If subs that could do both well exist, everybody would buy it and the truth it a few subs come close but they get their asses handed to them at a competition with a serious SQ or SPL system.
For a daily driver, a SQ sub is more than enough unless you're one of those guys that's not satisfied until cars two blocks down are getting frustrated with your bass notes.
Few subs that come close, each that I've owned and know intimately:
W7 - semi-loud, sloppy in SQ but does capture SQL to a degree
IDMAX - great sub, much better at SQL than the W7 but will never win you a SPL contest and although SQ on it is great to say the least, there are much better subs that will do SQ better with slightly lower SPL but still more than the average person should ever need for daily driving. I would consider this sub a SQ sub more than a SQL sub anyways.
Re - not bad, i'd place it between the W7 and IDMAX. Louder than the IDMAX but lacking more in SQ and the "tightness" of a SQ sub
Atomic - Don't ask, I've had arguments with people about it's SQ so I tested one for fun one day. Loud as hell but definitely not a SQ sub. Bass heads have to stop listening to sloppy notes to realize what SQ subs really are.
Also another note, using a SQ sub as a SPL sub (aka SQL) will ruin your SQ as you wear down your sub in the long run depending on how frequently pumped too much power.
You simply can't have the best of both worlds. That's like saying I want a car that I can race on the track (such as a porche) but I also want to be able to carry 8 people in it (like an SUV). What do you get? A crossover where you can't have 8 people nor can you race.
So SQL, it will not be that great in SQ because of the "L" and it won't be as loud because of the "SQ". If subs that could do both well exist, everybody would buy it and the truth it a few subs come close but they get their asses handed to them at a competition with a serious SQ or SPL system.
For a daily driver, a SQ sub is more than enough unless you're one of those guys that's not satisfied until cars two blocks down are getting frustrated with your bass notes.
Few subs that come close, each that I've owned and know intimately:
W7 - semi-loud, sloppy in SQ but does capture SQL to a degree
IDMAX - great sub, much better at SQL than the W7 but will never win you a SPL contest and although SQ on it is great to say the least, there are much better subs that will do SQ better with slightly lower SPL but still more than the average person should ever need for daily driving. I would consider this sub a SQ sub more than a SQL sub anyways.
Re - not bad, i'd place it between the W7 and IDMAX. Louder than the IDMAX but lacking more in SQ and the "tightness" of a SQ sub
Atomic - Don't ask, I've had arguments with people about it's SQ so I tested one for fun one day. Loud as hell but definitely not a SQ sub. Bass heads have to stop listening to sloppy notes to realize what SQ subs really are.
Also another note, using a SQ sub as a SPL sub (aka SQL) will ruin your SQ as you wear down your sub in the long run depending on how frequently pumped too much power.
Last edited by megamx; 03-15-2008 at 12:35 PM.
03-15-2008, 01:28 PM
#2
I think your on the wrong track. I don't really see the difference between SQ and SQL. If you build your system properly and use the right equipment you should have no problems being loud and having great SQ. Loud is a relitive term of course. In my mind 140db is pretty darn loud. So if you can achieve that and still have all your SQ requirements, your well on your way to having a great system. If a persons goal is to have an SPL monster, but still have good SQ there are lot of ways around that too. I would never say my personl SQ car is any good for SPL, but there's no way anyone would tell me my car isn't loud.
03-15-2008, 01:53 PM
#3
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I disagree.
I have never been in a car that does mid 140s that sounds even remotely SQ (in the bass area, not speakers).
To get mid 140s you would have to do one of the two (or both):
1) get lots of power and most high power amps are far from sq
2) go with ported which will never sound as tight and as good as sealed if both are done properly. (a bad sealed can sound worse than a ported, yes)
Not to mention, you play ANY sub (even pure SQ sub) at that much power, see how it sounds after a few months with the sub worn out.
You can have the rest of your system sound good but trying to get SPL and SQ out of a sub will just half *** both and I truly believe that the person would lose at both SQ and at SPL if they're competing against somebody who's even semi-competent and concentrating in just one area.
One example that comes to my mind is I sat in a car with a W7, ported but claimed to be a SQ system. Speakers sounded good but then one part of a song that came on that was supposed to be foot tapping and it sounded like nasty, distorted thunder coming from the trunk. Ported boxes also carry more distortion with them due to the characteristics of the box which makes the sub noticeable from the trunk and pulls the imaging back. The entire system works together and unless you got 8s up front and completely disable your subs, your SQL/SPL subs will bring you down.
I have never been in a car that does mid 140s that sounds even remotely SQ (in the bass area, not speakers).
To get mid 140s you would have to do one of the two (or both):
1) get lots of power and most high power amps are far from sq
2) go with ported which will never sound as tight and as good as sealed if both are done properly. (a bad sealed can sound worse than a ported, yes)
Not to mention, you play ANY sub (even pure SQ sub) at that much power, see how it sounds after a few months with the sub worn out.
You can have the rest of your system sound good but trying to get SPL and SQ out of a sub will just half *** both and I truly believe that the person would lose at both SQ and at SPL if they're competing against somebody who's even semi-competent and concentrating in just one area.
One example that comes to my mind is I sat in a car with a W7, ported but claimed to be a SQ system. Speakers sounded good but then one part of a song that came on that was supposed to be foot tapping and it sounded like nasty, distorted thunder coming from the trunk. Ported boxes also carry more distortion with them due to the characteristics of the box which makes the sub noticeable from the trunk and pulls the imaging back. The entire system works together and unless you got 8s up front and completely disable your subs, your SQL/SPL subs will bring you down.
Last edited by megamx; 03-15-2008 at 01:56 PM.
03-15-2008, 04:36 PM
#4
I disagree.
I have never been in a car that does mid 140s that sounds even remotely SQ (in the bass area, not speakers).
To get mid 140s you would have to do one of the two (or both):
1) get lots of power and most high power amps are far from sq
2) go with ported which will never sound as tight and as good as sealed if both are done properly. (a bad sealed can sound worse than a ported, yes)
Not to mention, you play ANY sub (even pure SQ sub) at that much power, see how it sounds after a few months with the sub worn out.
You can have the rest of your system sound good but trying to get SPL and SQ out of a sub will just half *** both and I truly believe that the person would lose at both SQ and at SPL if they're competing against somebody who's even semi-competent and concentrating in just one area.
One example that comes to my mind is I sat in a car with a W7, ported but claimed to be a SQ system. Speakers sounded good but then one part of a song that came on that was supposed to be foot tapping and it sounded like nasty, distorted thunder coming from the trunk. Ported boxes also carry more distortion with them due to the characteristics of the box which makes the sub noticeable from the trunk and pulls the imaging back. The entire system works together and unless you got 8s up front and completely disable your subs, your SQL/SPL subs will bring you down.
I have never been in a car that does mid 140s that sounds even remotely SQ (in the bass area, not speakers).
To get mid 140s you would have to do one of the two (or both):
1) get lots of power and most high power amps are far from sq
2) go with ported which will never sound as tight and as good as sealed if both are done properly. (a bad sealed can sound worse than a ported, yes)
Not to mention, you play ANY sub (even pure SQ sub) at that much power, see how it sounds after a few months with the sub worn out.
You can have the rest of your system sound good but trying to get SPL and SQ out of a sub will just half *** both and I truly believe that the person would lose at both SQ and at SPL if they're competing against somebody who's even semi-competent and concentrating in just one area.
One example that comes to my mind is I sat in a car with a W7, ported but claimed to be a SQ system. Speakers sounded good but then one part of a song that came on that was supposed to be foot tapping and it sounded like nasty, distorted thunder coming from the trunk. Ported boxes also carry more distortion with them due to the characteristics of the box which makes the sub noticeable from the trunk and pulls the imaging back. The entire system works together and unless you got 8s up front and completely disable your subs, your SQL/SPL subs will bring you down.
03-15-2008, 04:50 PM
#5
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Posts: 429
IT CAN BE DONE!
My GTP (burgundy one) hit 145's for fun and if u ask anybody it was one of the best Sq cars out there.
I had Two Audison amps. A 6 channel direct for the fronts and a 1.5 for the two 13" Focal polyglass subs. Heres the cool part....They were in a sealed box in the trunk and sounded like they were sitting on the dash.
All it takes is some patience with tuning.
Only thing I do agree with your claims is I am not a big fan of ported subs in a Sq car.
It can work nicley but on certain tracks the subs will not be as tight and controlled as a Sealed sub.
My GTP (burgundy one) hit 145's for fun and if u ask anybody it was one of the best Sq cars out there.
I had Two Audison amps. A 6 channel direct for the fronts and a 1.5 for the two 13" Focal polyglass subs. Heres the cool part....They were in a sealed box in the trunk and sounded like they were sitting on the dash.
All it takes is some patience with tuning.
Only thing I do agree with your claims is I am not a big fan of ported subs in a Sq car.
It can work nicley but on certain tracks the subs will not be as tight and controlled as a Sealed sub.
03-15-2008, 07:38 PM
#7
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Posts: 429
Gates hits high 160's in her bronco and guess what it wins in SQ comps.
I have judged that vehicle twice and it sounds really good!
U dont have to give up anything u wouldnt already be giving up to build a top car!
I would have no prob sending u all the info on how my car was built!
I have judged that vehicle twice and it sounds really good!
U dont have to give up anything u wouldnt already be giving up to build a top car!
I would have no prob sending u all the info on how my car was built!
03-15-2008, 08:54 PM
#9
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Gates hits high 160's in her bronco and guess what it wins in SQ comps.
I have judged that vehicle twice and it sounds really good!
U dont have to give up anything u wouldnt already be giving up to build a top car!
I would have no prob sending u all the info on how my car was built!
I have judged that vehicle twice and it sounds really good!
U dont have to give up anything u wouldnt already be giving up to build a top car!
I would have no prob sending u all the info on how my car was built!
It can sound good, I never denied that but a full out SQ car will beat a SQL and a full out SPL car with a SQL car. (If both guys are competent).
icebird88: I fully believe you! but another car with a sealed box that focused on SQ can and most likely would beat your sub. (Ignoring other aspects of the system). Most people also don't have the knowledge to do this, as soon as somebody asks what's the best SQL sub, that's a good sign that that guy does not know how to tune it to sound good in both categories.
To answer another guys question regarding what SPL score SQ system will hit is asking how sweet an apple is going to taste during the year. It depends. How many subs, what amps, power, sub size, sealed, ported, car, box volume....? I've seen them range from 120db to 160db+ (Gate's car which is stuffed with subs) Gates was a great inspiration to many but she would get beat by many many people out there today.
03-15-2008, 08:59 PM
#10
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SPL |------------------| SQ
SPL |--------x---------| SQ <--- SQL
You CAN do 2 x 13",15",18" in a sealed box and have it sound great and very loud due to shere volume that's just SQ not SQL.
In my mind SQL doesn't just mean loud and SQ. SQL means trying to hit 145db out of a single 12" while calling it SQ. Hitting 145db with 2 x 15" is easily done and is NOT SQL, it's simply SQ since the "L" (SPL) portion of it wold mean above 150db (where the other 2x15" systems are)
There's no line where if you hit past that your SQ system is now a SPL system.
