vented boxes in my doors
Guest
Posts: n/a
trust me im not textbooking, i have built more test enclosures for midranges than you could imagine, probobly even more than subwoofer enclosures, this thread seems to of turned into a "path of least resistance" installation method thread, and not that of real world testing, when this tread originally started, i said that it was something that i was thinking of doing, i wasnt winging it, all i wanted was input from people that have tried and experimented with it more than once, and all i got was one guy who said he tried it once and said it wasnt worth the effort, yet this is probobly the same guy willing to take 2 weeks to build a fibregalss box that will perform as well as box that takes 1 day(cosmetics aside)should that same reasoning not also take president in the installation of our midrange-bass and tweeters, its interesting that the focal rep came into my store with some test cabs for some speakers he wanted me to listen to, ported, the mbquart rep came in with his cabs, ported, the avi rep came in with his, ported, i sell alpine f#1, and got their new at the time components., called them asked what would be the best way to apply their speakers on my display-ported. these guys are trying to make their speakers sound as good as possible you would think as they are demo cabs built specifically for those speakers, did you notice an interesting pattern, not one ib recommended application. now understand that im not talking about a kenwood co-axial install, im talking about the better speakers out there, in an install where the design criteria is such that there are no limits on the intallation of the all important "front stage".
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have built 7 sealed test enclosures in the last month [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] Anyways, I am not saying it can't be done. What will you be building the enclosures out of? What kind of vehicle are you doing this in. The point about hinges is well worth the thought. I have seen people build MDF baffles and it cause the door to sag, most newer cars seem to have pretty flimsy hinges designed to not hold much more weight than the factory door. It's not a factor in my car since the enclosures will not be in the door, but it may be for you. Again, no one is saying you are wrong, just that most car audio speakers aren't designed for ported enclosures, obviously you are talking about higher end companies that are heavily involved in home driver manufacturing so that would have an effect on yur point of reference.
[ February 12, 2004, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: DWVW ]
[ February 12, 2004, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: DWVW ]
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
My response was a little too light hearted for the level of discussion you are proposing. So I’ll just add this.
You mentioned that you’ve built a lot of mid range enclosures. For what, an automotive environment or a home/showroom environment? Are you saying that what works in a show room or at your house should work and sound really good in a car? When a rep shows up with a boxed/ported midrange, it may only mean that it’s the best way to sell the driver to a customer in a showroom environment. How much experimenting have you done? You seem very focused and determined to prove via the specs that this boxed method is the only way to go. Anyways, I say all the more power to you. Go build it according to your beliefs. If it works for you, then you just gave yourself the most convincing argument possible…………. by proving it to yourself. Anything is possible. It’s all in the install.
And you’re “assuming” that the thread is taking the path of least resistance, which is definitely NOT the case. I’d sure like to know why you assume this thread is going in that direction. There’s a ton of experience that has responded back to you here and it seems to be something you don’t realize. If you believe you know better, then do like we all did a long time ago and go prove it to yourself.
You mentioned that you’ve built a lot of mid range enclosures. For what, an automotive environment or a home/showroom environment? Are you saying that what works in a show room or at your house should work and sound really good in a car? When a rep shows up with a boxed/ported midrange, it may only mean that it’s the best way to sell the driver to a customer in a showroom environment. How much experimenting have you done? You seem very focused and determined to prove via the specs that this boxed method is the only way to go. Anyways, I say all the more power to you. Go build it according to your beliefs. If it works for you, then you just gave yourself the most convincing argument possible…………. by proving it to yourself. Anything is possible. It’s all in the install.
And you’re “assuming” that the thread is taking the path of least resistance, which is definitely NOT the case. I’d sure like to know why you assume this thread is going in that direction. There’s a ton of experience that has responded back to you here and it seems to be something you don’t realize. If you believe you know better, then do like we all did a long time ago and go prove it to yourself.
Guest
Posts: n/a
so if i understand correctly, when the manufactuer recommends a person to build a particular box for their speakers, for best sound, that all that theory goes out the window as soon as its applied in-car, and im not saying that boxed method is the only way to go, i am saying that its better than ib in most cases, i have built many boxes for in car and for home and everytime the boxed(vented or sealed) provided better response, power handling, and sound quality every time
Guest
Posts: n/a
^ Come on Tom - you, Dereck and I are just a bunch of net kommandos that have no idea.
"defro13" - you are the one making all the assumptions here. You ASKED for input, you GOT it - and now that you don't like it you are defending it like a child. We are all accomodating your plans here with our own experience but you will not accomodate our wisdom.
I honestly don't care how you mount your drivers. Feel free to spend an insane amount of time for very minimal gain. [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
"defro13" - you are the one making all the assumptions here. You ASKED for input, you GOT it - and now that you don't like it you are defending it like a child. We are all accomodating your plans here with our own experience but you will not accomodate our wisdom.
I honestly don't care how you mount your drivers. Feel free to spend an insane amount of time for very minimal gain. [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by defro13:
my preliminary measurments tell me that i can get about .55 cubic ft of airspace behind my factory door panel and to the window in the door. i have looked on my design program and it says that the midrange( an avi bsm160 6.5 midrange-bass) will work great in this application. i consulted the manufacturer and they said that the speaker works very well vented. i am going to build it with the speaker in the front bottom of the door(a 2002 neon) and i am going to port it out the back of the door panel. it seems that very few people do this and i was wondering why, is it because it doesnt work well, poor power hadling, i have done some research and it seems to me that many of the 5.25" and 6.5" speakers available today will work very well ported, low moving mass and low qts etc, sorry for the long post but i have many ? regarding this
my preliminary measurments tell me that i can get about .55 cubic ft of airspace behind my factory door panel and to the window in the door. i have looked on my design program and it says that the midrange( an avi bsm160 6.5 midrange-bass) will work great in this application. i consulted the manufacturer and they said that the speaker works very well vented. i am going to build it with the speaker in the front bottom of the door(a 2002 neon) and i am going to port it out the back of the door panel. it seems that very few people do this and i was wondering why, is it because it doesnt work well, poor power hadling, i have done some research and it seems to me that many of the 5.25" and 6.5" speakers available today will work very well ported, low moving mass and low qts etc, sorry for the long post but i have many ? regarding this
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
Defro, how long have you been in car audio for .............. I mean seriously. Have you been at this for a while? I'm curious as to where you're line of thinking is coming from. And I'd like to know what manufacturers are recommending to you to install enclosures for door mounted installs??? How about throw up some names. I know most of the reps in Canada and would definitely enjoying chatting with them on this issue. What's the name of your shop/store again??? And you still didn't answer my question about the multitude of enclosures you've built either......... as to what application they were designed for?!
How about you start to answer some questions as well there buddy [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
How about you start to answer some questions as well there buddy [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
Guest
Posts: n/a
read the posts, i said ive built more midrange enclosures than i have sub, ive been in car audio for 13 years 3 different locations. larry penn at karz electronics brought me his test enclosures-ported because he said that was thier best application, tim turnbull at alpine said the vented allignment was best, richard at avi(who has built more speakers than you can imagine, every avi midrange,midbass, and woofer since there existense, thousands)and i never said that they said to build vented boxes in every door, but that they all said that the most ideal application was vented or sealed over ib, phone #s can be provided upon request but im sure with your 70 years of combined expreience they must be calling you for advice, i work at a shop in bc if you are intrested in talking pm with your ph#. the origianl popst was to see if there were people out there doing the same thing i do, it was worded in such a way as to try to get the people with usefull knowledge to respond, but little did i know that 70 combined years of "wisdom" you guys have would have produced not 1 single usefull bit of advice but to run ib, becuase "thats the way the manufacturers ASSUME you will be running them" very intelligent logic, kids....
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
You’ve been in car audio 13 years and you state that you’ve built a lot more mid range enclosures then sub enclosures. And you post the following:
It’s strange that someone with that much time in the industry is asking such a question and then go on to post like they know exactly what the best solution to their own question is. Seems even more puzzling that for someone claiming to have built so many midrange enclosures over 13 years that you don’t understand how they function in a car. What’s the deal??
I’ll put it this way, if a car was as good an environment as a dedicated room in a home or showroom, then I’d not be disagreeing with you at all. Building the correct enclosure to control a driver’s cone movement is always optimal. However, I repeat it once again, the very minimal gain you get from hacking up your doors and spending all that time building this enclosure into your doors will not yield a HUGE improvement over a properly created IB application. 13 years of experience?? Furthermore, there’s a lot more to getting the right “sound” from your drivers then the enclosure you’re proposing to place it in. Then again, you have 13 years in the industry, a lot of midrange enclosure design experience so you must know what you're talking about. So I basically have nothing more to offer you on this issue.
and i am going to port it out the back of the door panel. it seems that very few people do this and i was wondering why, is it because it doesnt work well, poor power handling , i have done some research and it seems to me that many of the 5.25" and 6.5" speakers available today will work very well ported, low moving mass and low qts etc
I’ll put it this way, if a car was as good an environment as a dedicated room in a home or showroom, then I’d not be disagreeing with you at all. Building the correct enclosure to control a driver’s cone movement is always optimal. However, I repeat it once again, the very minimal gain you get from hacking up your doors and spending all that time building this enclosure into your doors will not yield a HUGE improvement over a properly created IB application. 13 years of experience?? Furthermore, there’s a lot more to getting the right “sound” from your drivers then the enclosure you’re proposing to place it in. Then again, you have 13 years in the industry, a lot of midrange enclosure design experience so you must know what you're talking about. So I basically have nothing more to offer you on this issue.
