Monster cables?
12-15-2003, 05:07 AM
#21
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
Well here we go
Cables make a significant change in the sound of the audio signal, perhaps more significant than a power amp.
BTW some high profile car audio competitors have been using MIT cable. MIT to my ears sounds like Monster cable and Audioquest is also similar sounding (but usually the best). I prefer Kimber and Wireworld cables because they do less to the signal.
To get the benefits of the cable, the system resolution should be good and the system should be neutral. I owned CJ home gear and it so coloured the sound that cable differences were not very significant. By going to a more analytical system cable differences are clearly audible to non-audio geeks who visit my house.
Think about it, long stretches of cable ... any resistance/ capacitance/ inductance issues with the cable will affect the signal and that can be a long run in a car or in a home theater.
When I first heard the difference I couldn’t believe it, and quite frankly the electrical ‘science’ cable manufacturers use in their marketing is kind of wacko. There is a gent up the road who makes high end cables and he has some interesting ideas, his cables are OK too (Luminous Audio).
SUX2BU- I don’t think price to performance works too well in cable manufacture. If you have ever had to buy specialty cable for anything (radar, heavy shielded MHz cable, etc.) it is painful they pay for the 500 foot spool with your 4 foot order. This is similar, they don’t sell that much of their Ubercable so the volume pricing is out the window. Monster gouges pretty well on their lower lines as well.
Cables make a significant change in the sound of the audio signal, perhaps more significant than a power amp.
BTW some high profile car audio competitors have been using MIT cable. MIT to my ears sounds like Monster cable and Audioquest is also similar sounding (but usually the best). I prefer Kimber and Wireworld cables because they do less to the signal.
To get the benefits of the cable, the system resolution should be good and the system should be neutral. I owned CJ home gear and it so coloured the sound that cable differences were not very significant. By going to a more analytical system cable differences are clearly audible to non-audio geeks who visit my house.
Think about it, long stretches of cable ... any resistance/ capacitance/ inductance issues with the cable will affect the signal and that can be a long run in a car or in a home theater.
When I first heard the difference I couldn’t believe it, and quite frankly the electrical ‘science’ cable manufacturers use in their marketing is kind of wacko. There is a gent up the road who makes high end cables and he has some interesting ideas, his cables are OK too (Luminous Audio).
SUX2BU- I don’t think price to performance works too well in cable manufacture. If you have ever had to buy specialty cable for anything (radar, heavy shielded MHz cable, etc.) it is painful they pay for the 500 foot spool with your 4 foot order. This is similar, they don’t sell that much of their Ubercable so the volume pricing is out the window. Monster gouges pretty well on their lower lines as well.
12-15-2003, 02:07 PM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
And here I thought JohnVroom sounded like such a reasonable normal guy [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Cables are a tough one. How do you tell a guy NO you DON'T hear that? I know I've tried a few times on various levels fo gear from $1500 systems to $15000 systems and I've been unable to hear it or get anyone I was with to hear it. BUT that is just my experience.
Then I believe the fact that there has yet to be a single instance of someone identifying a difference in a true ABX test too - but the audiophile community has 'reasons' to argue that too.
Personally I look at it like gasoline - some swear that their car runs better/faster/more MPG on Esso than Shell or whatever but I've never seen the proof when I used to keep records myself. [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
I agree with DWVW that cabling is mostly jewellery - use what you like and feel is appropriate for your system. Feel free to differ - I won't mind [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
Cables are a tough one. How do you tell a guy NO you DON'T hear that? I know I've tried a few times on various levels fo gear from $1500 systems to $15000 systems and I've been unable to hear it or get anyone I was with to hear it. BUT that is just my experience.
Then I believe the fact that there has yet to be a single instance of someone identifying a difference in a true ABX test too - but the audiophile community has 'reasons' to argue that too.
Personally I look at it like gasoline - some swear that their car runs better/faster/more MPG on Esso than Shell or whatever but I've never seen the proof when I used to keep records myself. [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
I agree with DWVW that cabling is mostly jewellery - use what you like and feel is appropriate for your system. Feel free to differ - I won't mind [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
12-15-2003, 03:06 PM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
heh heh.. I knew that would get you guys riled up.
The test was amazingly simple.
My father brought home 20 feet of AudioQuest CV$ cable. I ran it from the channel B connections of his 20+ year old Sony receiver to his JM Lab Chorus speakers. I left the runs of 12awg purple Rockford Fosgate wire that I gave him n Channel B of the receiver. All cables were terminated together at the speaker terminals.
I listened to the Focal disk, as I have thousands of times before, specifically, Spanish Harlem. I listened with the 12-awg cables first. I found the sound to be somewhat bright in the upper midrange. The imaging was so-so. It was however in their bedroom which is pretty much square. I restarted the track and listened again with the Audioquest cable. The midrange balance improved and the imaging tightened up.
Simple test.
The 12awg stuff is coiled up in the basement somewhere....
Now, that all being said, not every cable can have the same effect. I have read the Audioquest website from top to bottom and have tracked down and interogated the local rep. I like what I hear, both in terms of their design philsophy and the music. So that's what I use.
If you don't want to use high-end cables, that's totally cool with me. I am not saying you have to, nor do I think that a system of any quality, put together by any person, of any age, with any amount of experience can't be made to sound quite excellent. But when you have good gear, good cables can make it sound better.
The test was amazingly simple.
My father brought home 20 feet of AudioQuest CV$ cable. I ran it from the channel B connections of his 20+ year old Sony receiver to his JM Lab Chorus speakers. I left the runs of 12awg purple Rockford Fosgate wire that I gave him n Channel B of the receiver. All cables were terminated together at the speaker terminals.
I listened to the Focal disk, as I have thousands of times before, specifically, Spanish Harlem. I listened with the 12-awg cables first. I found the sound to be somewhat bright in the upper midrange. The imaging was so-so. It was however in their bedroom which is pretty much square. I restarted the track and listened again with the Audioquest cable. The midrange balance improved and the imaging tightened up.
Simple test.
The 12awg stuff is coiled up in the basement somewhere....
Now, that all being said, not every cable can have the same effect. I have read the Audioquest website from top to bottom and have tracked down and interogated the local rep. I like what I hear, both in terms of their design philsophy and the music. So that's what I use.
If you don't want to use high-end cables, that's totally cool with me. I am not saying you have to, nor do I think that a system of any quality, put together by any person, of any age, with any amount of experience can't be made to sound quite excellent. But when you have good gear, good cables can make it sound better.
12-15-2003, 04:26 PM
#26
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
And here I thought JohnVroom sounded like such a reasonable normal guy
I agree with DWVW that cabling is mostly jewelry - use what you like and feel is appropriate for your system. Feel free to differ - I won't mind
There were some Monsters, Stingers, and a couple others hanging on the wall and the owner (who owed me a favor or two for fixing his computers) said check out the cheep ones in the yellow bubble pack (forgot the brand). So I took home the $11 cable and plugged it into my home stereo and was amazed at how good it sounded (15 feet of cheep and good cable “thank you God”). I heard a flat freq response, decent dynamics… not bad. Then I kept listening and I noticed a bit of dirtiness or cloudiness compared to my usual cables and the soundstage was shallow. Also there was sameness to the music (symbols sounded similar, guitars, violins, etc.) Eventually I identified the voicing of the cable, what was embarrassing was it took a while (hours) to identify the sound… If the testing I had done was timed or was faster paced or in a louder room or on unfamiliar gear I would have not done very well. This cable happened to sound similar to my cables (Kimber, and Wireworld) but very different from Monster, MIT, AQ. If you have the money compare, but I am fortunate because I have a canvas bag filled with cables and I can compare as needed.
12-15-2003, 04:31 PM
#28
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
Is there a difference in cables YES, is it worth the $ (Your call)? I will throw money at cable only if I throw money at High end electronics.
Ever heard this "Now I do not care for the Brand X’s sound it is fat and warm and exaggerates width, while Brand Y has been accused of being bright and edgy ". The deal is the cable shouldn’t add or subtract from the sound of the electronics. A piano should be as wide as a piano not 30’ across. A grand piano shouldn’t sound like a stand up piano. A cable can be used as a tone control, many dealers recommend only certain cables for their speakers (apogee comes to mind)… good luck.
If you read the cable manufacturers marketing script you will be lost in a sea of technobabble. There are some wild designs out there, warts on the cable, ferrites, high capacitance, water jackets, cryogenic this or that, litz copper, cardas rca covers, impressed DC shielding. Impedance, capacitive and inductive reactance, number of strands, wire material (copper/ silver), shielding, RCA plug, and insulation material are the variables. I tend to like silver cable, fewer strands, and Teflon insulation… but just having that doesn’t make it good. Remember a cable or amp is not supposed to make your system sound good, just tell the truth.
Ever heard this "Now I do not care for the Brand X’s sound it is fat and warm and exaggerates width, while Brand Y has been accused of being bright and edgy ". The deal is the cable shouldn’t add or subtract from the sound of the electronics. A piano should be as wide as a piano not 30’ across. A grand piano shouldn’t sound like a stand up piano. A cable can be used as a tone control, many dealers recommend only certain cables for their speakers (apogee comes to mind)… good luck.
If you read the cable manufacturers marketing script you will be lost in a sea of technobabble. There are some wild designs out there, warts on the cable, ferrites, high capacitance, water jackets, cryogenic this or that, litz copper, cardas rca covers, impressed DC shielding. Impedance, capacitive and inductive reactance, number of strands, wire material (copper/ silver), shielding, RCA plug, and insulation material are the variables. I tend to like silver cable, fewer strands, and Teflon insulation… but just having that doesn’t make it good. Remember a cable or amp is not supposed to make your system sound good, just tell the truth.
12-15-2003, 09:13 PM
#29
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
Yeah lets make this the JV (not to be confused with the RC) challenge: if you cant hear the difference between cables at my house I buy you a beer (canadian) if you can not only do you buy me a beer (canadian) but you've gotta drink a Utica Club beer.
12-15-2003, 09:58 PM
#30
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 77
i noticed a difference when i upgraded wires, but i also went from 12ga cheapo wire to 8g stuff that was already terminated with banana plugs.
i think there are a couple ways wires will sound different. first is the conductor. basically if it has a low enough resistance. the longer the run the less resistance. you can decrease the resistance by just getting bigger cable, so the material difference may or may not matter. second is the shielding. basically this is where many cables differ. some 'exotic' cables use "gamma technology" personally i think that's garbage, but w/e. finally is the end connection. obviously the more surface ares=better connection.
is there a difference between brand a and brand b's 10/ft cable? i'd say no on almost every count. but there is a difference between crappy 16g and some quality 12g. my speakers are noticebly louder, not just cleaner, but louder with my 8g quality stuff, then the 12g wire i bought from home depot. side by side i have to adjust the balance to the side with the home depot stuff. but that not cause the quality wire is an amazing product, it's cause the home depot stuff is not.
by the way, i neglected to name the brand of wire i use on purpose, cause frankly, it doesn't matter
i think there are a couple ways wires will sound different. first is the conductor. basically if it has a low enough resistance. the longer the run the less resistance. you can decrease the resistance by just getting bigger cable, so the material difference may or may not matter. second is the shielding. basically this is where many cables differ. some 'exotic' cables use "gamma technology" personally i think that's garbage, but w/e. finally is the end connection. obviously the more surface ares=better connection.
is there a difference between brand a and brand b's 10/ft cable? i'd say no on almost every count. but there is a difference between crappy 16g and some quality 12g. my speakers are noticebly louder, not just cleaner, but louder with my 8g quality stuff, then the 12g wire i bought from home depot. side by side i have to adjust the balance to the side with the home depot stuff. but that not cause the quality wire is an amazing product, it's cause the home depot stuff is not.
by the way, i neglected to name the brand of wire i use on purpose, cause frankly, it doesn't matter
