Monster cables?
12-18-2003, 04:22 PM
#62
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
The ABX box will lower the overall quality but I don’t know... I have never used an ABX for comparing cables. From a scientific point of view it is essential to only change one variable at a time and I don’t know if that meets the grade... seems odd cable lengths and switch quality could be an issue. I would like to give it a go. The question is how bad will the ECF be (error carried forward) if the ABX colors the sound then everything including downstream will be affected.
12-18-2003, 05:35 PM
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
How can one say that an ABX box, which is merely come fancy control and counting stuff connected to a good quality relay color the sound more than any other set of connections?
If one does hand comparisons and uses banana plugs on speaker wire there are just as many connections in line..
Also it seems fantastic that a mere few soldered connections could mar what has been argues a 'very apparent' difference in gear. [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
Over to you Bob... [img]smile.gif[/img]
If one does hand comparisons and uses banana plugs on speaker wire there are just as many connections in line..
Also it seems fantastic that a mere few soldered connections could mar what has been argues a 'very apparent' difference in gear. [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
Over to you Bob... [img]smile.gif[/img]
12-18-2003, 06:14 PM
#65
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
Is a switching unit good quality? Or is it inexpensive and reliable? I do not know either way, nor do I care, bring it on.
AS YOU know Dukk I have a PPI EQ and I keep it in my car set up and powered up but not in the audio circuit. When it is in the circuit it damages the sound even when bypass is selected. Just by adding connections and circuitry it affects the signal (the music lost its pace and rhythm a bit). The system was less dynamic and less interesting with the PPI and this is a very expensive unit. This would cloud the issue but I think the difference would still be there. Kind of like using lousy windshield wipers at night. In theory the difference with a switching unit should be less audible. I prefer to keep gain constant and swap out RCA's no middle man.
I am really enjoying this thread, it is mental exercise
AS YOU know Dukk I have a PPI EQ and I keep it in my car set up and powered up but not in the audio circuit. When it is in the circuit it damages the sound even when bypass is selected. Just by adding connections and circuitry it affects the signal (the music lost its pace and rhythm a bit). The system was less dynamic and less interesting with the PPI and this is a very expensive unit. This would cloud the issue but I think the difference would still be there. Kind of like using lousy windshield wipers at night. In theory the difference with a switching unit should be less audible. I prefer to keep gain constant and swap out RCA's no middle man.
I am really enjoying this thread, it is mental exercise
12-19-2003, 09:35 AM
#67
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
I just thought I’d chime in now, it’s an interesting thread.
I’ve been extremely lucky to have been introduced to high end audio at a fairly young age. The first reason is that young ears hear better, I was able to pick up tiny details and enjoy them. Details that I’m sure that I wouldn’t pick up now.
The second reason is that before I had a technical understanding of all the advertising mumbo jumbo, I was exposed to many cable products. This allowed me to base my opinions entirely on my ears, rather than science. Now before science gets dragged into this, I’d like to say that I later understood the science of what I heard when I was older. At this point I’m sure a few of you are asking how freaking old were you? Well when I was 9, my dad and I used to spend hours moving Electrostatic loudspeakers around our listening room. I guess you could say I got an early start on my audio addiction!
Wire, we were talking about wire!
Over the years I’ve been exposed to a very wide range of wire. The first really kick a$$ wire I heard was a set of M.I.T. 750 Shotgun Terminators. I think they were around $5,000 for an 8ft pair. Not the most expensive cables I have heard, but at the time, a pretty dramatic experience. It opened my eyes, before that I had never considered wire to be that important. I feel th
I’ve been extremely lucky to have been introduced to high end audio at a fairly young age. The first reason is that young ears hear better, I was able to pick up tiny details and enjoy them. Details that I’m sure that I wouldn’t pick up now.
The second reason is that before I had a technical understanding of all the advertising mumbo jumbo, I was exposed to many cable products. This allowed me to base my opinions entirely on my ears, rather than science. Now before science gets dragged into this, I’d like to say that I later understood the science of what I heard when I was older. At this point I’m sure a few of you are asking how freaking old were you? Well when I was 9, my dad and I used to spend hours moving Electrostatic loudspeakers around our listening room. I guess you could say I got an early start on my audio addiction!
Wire, we were talking about wire!
Over the years I’ve been exposed to a very wide range of wire. The first really kick a$$ wire I heard was a set of M.I.T. 750 Shotgun Terminators. I think they were around $5,000 for an 8ft pair. Not the most expensive cables I have heard, but at the time, a pretty dramatic experience. It opened my eyes, before that I had never considered wire to be that important. I feel th
12-19-2003, 09:41 AM
#68
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
I just thought I’d chime in now, it’s an interesting thread.
I’ve been extremely lucky to have been introduced to high end audio at a fairly young age. The first reason is that young ears hear better, I was able to pick up tiny details and enjoy them. Details that I’m sure that I wouldn’t pick up now.
The second reason is that before I had a technical understanding of all the advertising mumbo jumbo, I was exposed to many cable products. This allowed me to base my opinions entirely on my ears, rather than science. Now before science gets dragged into this, I’d like to say that I later understood the science of what I heard when I was older. At this point I’m sure a few of you are asking how freaking old were you? Well when I was 9, my dad and I used to spend hours moving Electrostatic loudspeakers around our listening room. I guess you could say I got an early start on my audio addiction!
Wire, we were talking about wire!
Over the years I’ve been exposed to a very wide range of wire. The first really kick a$$ wire I heard was a set of M.I.T. 750 Shotgun Terminators. I think they were around $5,000 for an 8ft pair. Not the most expensive cables I have heard, but at the time, a pretty dramatic experience. It opened my eyes, before that I had never considered wire to be that important. I feel that many people are at that point with their stereos. They haven’t heard the effect of good wire, so they can’t justify it’s existence. I understand, I was the same too.
Side note: For those with an interest in the Kimber Cable pure silver stuff, it sounds different. Just because it’s made of a precious metal doesn’t make it any better than the next cable. It does make an improvement to some systems, but it depends on your starting point. My dad still has a pile of it somewhere in a box; both interconnect and speaker cable.
And here is the point I’ve been winding up for.
Water filled cables! To bring the nick-name back correctly, I believe people called them the “Texas water cables”. To put a bit of perspective on this, the guy that started making the above nicknamed cables was a NASA engineer. The company he founded was called Purist Audio Design, or PAD for short. He built cables that used a jacket of fluid around the conductors. When I first heard of this I though it was nuts. It didn’t make any sense to me and I thought “here comes another tweeky product”. Well remember the pile of pure silver Kimber Cable,(and a lot of others) the PAD cables are the reason they are in boxes in the basement.
So what the heck makes PAD cables so special? I’m going to keep this simple. They sound better than anything else I’ve ever heard.
Here is a little test I was involved with one time. PAD shipped my dad 3 prototype cables that measured about 3 feet in length. They had labels attached to them simply stating cable A, B, and C. We were asked to listen to the 3 cables, list the equipment we used, and enclose our findings when sending the samples back. The same 3 samples types were sent to many other people all across North America. The range of equipment used was quite diverse. The cables themselves were made of exactly the same wire conductors, terminated the same way, with the same type of jacket around them(Actually large Aquarium tubing). The difference was what filled the outer jacket.(Aquarium tubing) One cable had nothing in it, it was literally filled with air. The second cable had a type of gelatine injected into it. The third cable had a fluid with electromagnetic properties filling the jacket. Cable C, with the fluid jacket, was by far the best sounding of the lot.
NASA is currently testing ways of isolating electronic circuitry for prolonged exposure in space. This was one of the technologies developed by the founder of PAD. If anybody is interested in space technology, you’d be amazed how simple some of the electronics they use are. For example, they still use pre-286 chipsets in many of the on board computing systems. The reason is stray electrons in space traveling extremely fast have less possibility of “hitting” a track on a processor with lots of space on it, than one of our current densely packed processors. Kind of like ing people out to limit your losses in a war from a single bombs impact.
Anyway, the fluid jacket had a positive sonic impact on the cables.
Thanks for reading my ramble. I’ll go back to reading everybody else’s excellent posts. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
Adam
I’ve been extremely lucky to have been introduced to high end audio at a fairly young age. The first reason is that young ears hear better, I was able to pick up tiny details and enjoy them. Details that I’m sure that I wouldn’t pick up now.
The second reason is that before I had a technical understanding of all the advertising mumbo jumbo, I was exposed to many cable products. This allowed me to base my opinions entirely on my ears, rather than science. Now before science gets dragged into this, I’d like to say that I later understood the science of what I heard when I was older. At this point I’m sure a few of you are asking how freaking old were you? Well when I was 9, my dad and I used to spend hours moving Electrostatic loudspeakers around our listening room. I guess you could say I got an early start on my audio addiction!
Wire, we were talking about wire!
Over the years I’ve been exposed to a very wide range of wire. The first really kick a$$ wire I heard was a set of M.I.T. 750 Shotgun Terminators. I think they were around $5,000 for an 8ft pair. Not the most expensive cables I have heard, but at the time, a pretty dramatic experience. It opened my eyes, before that I had never considered wire to be that important. I feel that many people are at that point with their stereos. They haven’t heard the effect of good wire, so they can’t justify it’s existence. I understand, I was the same too.
Side note: For those with an interest in the Kimber Cable pure silver stuff, it sounds different. Just because it’s made of a precious metal doesn’t make it any better than the next cable. It does make an improvement to some systems, but it depends on your starting point. My dad still has a pile of it somewhere in a box; both interconnect and speaker cable.
And here is the point I’ve been winding up for.
Water filled cables! To bring the nick-name back correctly, I believe people called them the “Texas water cables”. To put a bit of perspective on this, the guy that started making the above nicknamed cables was a NASA engineer. The company he founded was called Purist Audio Design, or PAD for short. He built cables that used a jacket of fluid around the conductors. When I first heard of this I though it was nuts. It didn’t make any sense to me and I thought “here comes another tweeky product”. Well remember the pile of pure silver Kimber Cable,(and a lot of others) the PAD cables are the reason they are in boxes in the basement.
So what the heck makes PAD cables so special? I’m going to keep this simple. They sound better than anything else I’ve ever heard.
Here is a little test I was involved with one time. PAD shipped my dad 3 prototype cables that measured about 3 feet in length. They had labels attached to them simply stating cable A, B, and C. We were asked to listen to the 3 cables, list the equipment we used, and enclose our findings when sending the samples back. The same 3 samples types were sent to many other people all across North America. The range of equipment used was quite diverse. The cables themselves were made of exactly the same wire conductors, terminated the same way, with the same type of jacket around them(Actually large Aquarium tubing). The difference was what filled the outer jacket.(Aquarium tubing) One cable had nothing in it, it was literally filled with air. The second cable had a type of gelatine injected into it. The third cable had a fluid with electromagnetic properties filling the jacket. Cable C, with the fluid jacket, was by far the best sounding of the lot.
NASA is currently testing ways of isolating electronic circuitry for prolonged exposure in space. This was one of the technologies developed by the founder of PAD. If anybody is interested in space technology, you’d be amazed how simple some of the electronics they use are. For example, they still use pre-286 chipsets in many of the on board computing systems. The reason is stray electrons in space traveling extremely fast have less possibility of “hitting” a track on a processor with lots of space on it, than one of our current densely packed processors. Kind of like ing people out to limit your losses in a war from a single bombs impact.
Anyway, the fluid jacket had a positive sonic impact on the cables.
Thanks for reading my ramble. I’ll go back to reading everybody else’s excellent posts. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
Adam
12-19-2003, 09:48 AM
#69
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
That post left me with a feeling of incompleteness.
Dragging science into audio is much akin to scientists and artists talking, on the surface they have very little in common. But once the veil is pierced they are essential to each others well being. To improve the art of music science is needed, does the scientist appreciate the art or vise versa? That we have is experimentation finding a difference, then the scientist or worse the BA degree, trying to explain why here is a difference (PFM).
Now before science gets dragged into this, I’d like to say that I later understood the science of what I heard when I was older.
12-19-2003, 09:52 AM
#70
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
^^^My pc crashed halfway through sending the above, thus a double post. Sorry!
I'm currently running Monster XLN PRO interconnect in my car as pictured in another persons post above. I'm going to do a test with some really expensive cable shortly. But, I don't expect to replace what I already have. Some of the really high end cable is HUGE. Pretty hard to fit under the carpet! I'll post what I find. JohnVroom, I'll even throw in some Kimber silver for ya!
Adam
I'm currently running Monster XLN PRO interconnect in my car as pictured in another persons post above. I'm going to do a test with some really expensive cable shortly. But, I don't expect to replace what I already have. Some of the really high end cable is HUGE. Pretty hard to fit under the carpet! I'll post what I find. JohnVroom, I'll even throw in some Kimber silver for ya!
Adam
