Monster cables?
12-15-2003, 10:11 PM
#32
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 604
I think that copper is copper period. While there is some different types of wire the advantages are not sound related.
Exspensive wire will have much higher build quality. They look sweet and will last alot longer than cheapo stuff. As long as the wire is oxygen free and has a high strand count its all the same.
When people say they notice a big difference when they install a $200 pair of RCA patch cables i think it the placebo effect that is telling them it sounds better. The mind tells them it sounds better because they are trying to justify spend the coin on the cables.
Looking at the physics of it cables are used to transfer electrons. Brand X wires will transfer electrons just as good as brand Y. Unless strand count and lenth of wire are differnt in the to brands. Or the wire is made from a different type of metal.
But hey, if you can afford the $$$$ to buy these bling bling wires then giver. But if they are going to be hidden then save your money. Because they are only going to make your system LOOK better rather than sound better.
Exspensive wire will have much higher build quality. They look sweet and will last alot longer than cheapo stuff. As long as the wire is oxygen free and has a high strand count its all the same.
When people say they notice a big difference when they install a $200 pair of RCA patch cables i think it the placebo effect that is telling them it sounds better. The mind tells them it sounds better because they are trying to justify spend the coin on the cables.
Looking at the physics of it cables are used to transfer electrons. Brand X wires will transfer electrons just as good as brand Y. Unless strand count and lenth of wire are differnt in the to brands. Or the wire is made from a different type of metal.
But hey, if you can afford the $$$$ to buy these bling bling wires then giver. But if they are going to be hidden then save your money. Because they are only going to make your system LOOK better rather than sound better.
12-15-2003, 10:16 PM
#33
So what would happen if you connected pieces of equipment with 1" square solid copper bus that is silver-soldered to the circuit boards? Sounds like no reason for resistance, capacitance or inductance there. It would be the ULTIMATE sounding cable EVER [img]tongue.gif[/img] Well, the purists would say there is no shielding so it couldn't sound good but it would be neat to try [img]smile.gif[/img]
12-16-2003, 04:57 AM
#34
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
I do not think shielding is always an issue in car audio, my IC is currently unshielded. But noise sure can be an issue but it is usually ground noise not impressed noise ! Shielding can be a bit of a misnomer, there are primarily co-axial designs in audio cables. I have seen several use an active current impression on the shield to eliminate noise (both changed the sound of the cable a little) but none use a heavy metal shield.
12-16-2003, 05:00 AM
#35
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
You have good points SUX, you chump out $300 and you expect semi-godlike performance. I have listened to a LOT of cables and the price doesn’t always follow performance (my bias is I want the cheaper cable to out perform the expensive, I WANT to spend less). I think the bar would pump a lot of electrons but roll off the HF just like large guage singe conductor cable (some will like that)
12-16-2003, 05:10 AM
#37
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
You know Dukk it has always concerned me that not everyone hears the same thing especially on amps and wires. I think part of it is biology (we are made differently) and part of it is not. Perhaps it is a non-placebo effect ... 'I will not hear a difference' (wrong forum for that though)
D-50 sorry if I seem to be a name dropper but my point was simulary made cables TEND to sound simular.
D-50 sorry if I seem to be a name dropper but my point was simulary made cables TEND to sound simular.
12-16-2003, 10:18 AM
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Much of what improves the performance of a cable is based in the time domain and not necessarily affected by resistance, capacitance and inductance, though those are still important.
The Audioquest CV-4 cable I spoke of earlier uses solid conductors. Why? Because the electron electrical and magnetic interaction between the conductors affects the flow of electrons through the cable. It also alters the skin effect properties, better aligning and transmitting high frequencies along the outside of the conductor. To simplify, not having to jump from strand to strand better aligns the electron flow.
The cable uses two different size conductors for the positive and for the negative (yes, four separate conductors for a two-wire connection).Any particular size (diameter) of cable will have its own sonic signature. Using two conductors (one 20awg and the other 17awg for a net 15awg) reduces this effect,
The copper used is called Perfect Surface. Translation: the surface of the copper is essentially polished. Again, this has to do with skin effect and the coherent and un-interrupted flow of electrons.
The four conductors are wound together inside their insulation in a spiral to help reduce inductive and capacitive characteristics that cause phase shifts in the signal.
Pretty much everything has to do achieving a coherent and time-aligned electrical wavefront to the speaker.
Hard to argue with physics....
The Audioquest CV-4 cable I spoke of earlier uses solid conductors. Why? Because the electron electrical and magnetic interaction between the conductors affects the flow of electrons through the cable. It also alters the skin effect properties, better aligning and transmitting high frequencies along the outside of the conductor. To simplify, not having to jump from strand to strand better aligns the electron flow.
The cable uses two different size conductors for the positive and for the negative (yes, four separate conductors for a two-wire connection).Any particular size (diameter) of cable will have its own sonic signature. Using two conductors (one 20awg and the other 17awg for a net 15awg) reduces this effect,
The copper used is called Perfect Surface. Translation: the surface of the copper is essentially polished. Again, this has to do with skin effect and the coherent and un-interrupted flow of electrons.
The four conductors are wound together inside their insulation in a spiral to help reduce inductive and capacitive characteristics that cause phase shifts in the signal.
Pretty much everything has to do achieving a coherent and time-aligned electrical wavefront to the speaker.
Hard to argue with physics....
12-16-2003, 01:50 PM
#39
Dave,
Isn't skin effect a non-issue in the audio frequency range, and only a concern much higher up the frequency scale?
I seem to recall reading something to this effect, but for the life of me can't remember where.
I could be wrong though...
Isn't skin effect a non-issue in the audio frequency range, and only a concern much higher up the frequency scale?
I seem to recall reading something to this effect, but for the life of me can't remember where.
I could be wrong though...
12-16-2003, 01:59 PM
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Dave - physics says "skin effect" does not occur until decades above the audible spectrum... [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
but anyway... this was my favorite part: "..Because the electron electrical and magnetic interaction between the conductors affects the flow of electrons through the cable. It also alters the skin effect properties, better aligning and transmitting high frequencies along the outside of the conductor.." [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img] Straight out of marketing 101.
And my favorite 'audiophile' bit is time alignment in a cable though. Electricity travels through copper at speeds approaching light. We hear at the speed of sound (really, we do). You could have a mile of wire on one side and 2feet on the other side and not hear the time difference. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
The SINGLE caveat I offer is that I agree that a cable can be made SO poorly that it will affect sound negatively. It would be a bad cable.
but anyway... this was my favorite part: "..Because the electron electrical and magnetic interaction between the conductors affects the flow of electrons through the cable. It also alters the skin effect properties, better aligning and transmitting high frequencies along the outside of the conductor.." [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img] Straight out of marketing 101.
And my favorite 'audiophile' bit is time alignment in a cable though. Electricity travels through copper at speeds approaching light. We hear at the speed of sound (really, we do). You could have a mile of wire on one side and 2feet on the other side and not hear the time difference. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
The SINGLE caveat I offer is that I agree that a cable can be made SO poorly that it will affect sound negatively. It would be a bad cable.
