A Debate on the many different aspects of sound
02-20-2005, 10:12 AM
#121
Guest
Posts: n/a
if you are saying that venting a midrange or midbass is on the same level as mounting a midrange under the rear seat, your a fool. i have posted the results of my testing that stated that i always achieved better and more lower freq. response when i did it, remember i actually did it, so im not too sure what your talking about. i also run a up front woofer and it works very well, as did the vented doors, so again im not sure what your point is, if there is one. i backed up every statement i made with my test results and you back up your opinion with zero, sorry, you tried to relate venting mids to tweeters in the ceiling and mids under the seat. different speakers were tuned to different freqencies, in the neon they were tunes to 55, the most recent test i did was with the f#1 4", 10ltr sealed f3 185hz, 4.5lts vented f3 85hz, both boxes were built and listened to the difference was very dramatic as the #'s would refelect. i have done it, you havent yet dismiss it as senseless and as smart as putting mids under the rear seat 
[img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]
[ February 20, 2005, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: defro13 ]
[img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img][ February 20, 2005, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: defro13 ]
02-20-2005, 10:47 AM
#122
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Posts: n/a
My point was that one does not have to slam their head in a door to know it will hurt. Feel free to prove that one wrong though.
So again the best you can offer it that 'you like it'. That's ok Dave. If it's what you got then it's what you got.
You can leave the personal insults to your enlightening PMs too
DWVW and I have both played with sealed and vented midranges, although admittedly I have not stuck a vented midrange in a car - but that is due to my realization that it is a waste of time. Sounds like Dereck agrees also, as do most of the professional installers that have commented in various threads on this topic on this board.
Apparently your results differ from everyone else.
I would absolutely love to have a face to face conversation on the theory behind venting a midrange but sealing or going IB for subbass. It could prove amusing.
So again the best you can offer it that 'you like it'. That's ok Dave. If it's what you got then it's what you got.
You can leave the personal insults to your enlightening PMs too
DWVW and I have both played with sealed and vented midranges, although admittedly I have not stuck a vented midrange in a car - but that is due to my realization that it is a waste of time. Sounds like Dereck agrees also, as do most of the professional installers that have commented in various threads on this topic on this board.
Apparently your results differ from everyone else.
I would absolutely love to have a face to face conversation on the theory behind venting a midrange but sealing or going IB for subbass. It could prove amusing.
02-20-2005, 11:12 AM
#124
Guest
Posts: n/a
im not to sure that i personally insulted you but ok [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img] . built it, listen to it, then give your opinion on it, thats my point. when i was discussion my new systems with 2 speaker engineers, howard doctor and jason kimmerer, they both said that it was inconceivable to them why someone wouldnt do if they had the ability. i'll leave it at that you dont belive my testing, if you think that i did listening test all on my own you are misteken, these test boxes that ive built are on my f#1 display for everone to hear all day long and not 1 single person said the sealed was better than the vented, i agree, the coversation would be amusing, because i can back up my statements with real world testing that i could let you hear, you know where i am if you want to talk and hear, there wouldnt be much talking after you heard [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
02-20-2005, 11:50 AM
#125
Guest
Posts: n/a
...your a fool...
im not to sure that i personally insulted you but ok [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img] ...
okokok - so you have a 4" in a sealed box and a 4" in a vented box and the 4" is vastly superior. Even with a subwoofer turned on?
Since you like to laud experience - in my experience with home theatre systems and out-of-car midrange boxes I have found that once you add a woofer that it masks the bottom end of the midrange anyway. Of course I generally don't cut my subwoofers off at 31hz either..
Maybe that is the difference?
Oh and as an answer to Dereck - one of the detriments to a vented enclosure above tuning is a pretty wild phase shift in the first octave.
02-20-2005, 12:01 PM
#126
Guest
Posts: n/a
my display runs with woofers, and the dictionary is right, "a person who has a talent or enthusiam for a certain activity" the enthusiasm you have had in this discussion is basing your opinions on no "real" in car experience, you even stand by your "opinion" when even speaker engineers speak otherwise, for that you are... well you already looked it up [img]tongue.gif[/img] 
, anyway, you know where i am, and you can have a listen to the neon when its done, and make an opinion based on some actual in car alistening [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
, anyway, you know where i am, and you can have a listen to the neon when its done, and make an opinion based on some actual in car alistening [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
02-20-2005, 02:45 PM
#127
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 870
Personally, I'd be a bit leary of the phase shift, but in my experience, almost no-one gives a hoot about staging and imaging (present company excepted)and almost everyone can hear output. It takes an educated ear to notice the sublty of a properly staged system, but any tin ear can hear if it "slams" or not.
Like Charlie the Tuna...."we don't want speakers with good sound...we want speakers that sound good." Just look at what "no highs, no lows, must be Bose did with their stuff.
With that in mind, I'm trying to build a system that will impress a maximum # of ears...this won't be competeing, as until I bring an IASCA show to town, there simply won't be one here.
That being said, I really was hoping to get into the competition scene this year, but I got engaged, so I got a ring instead of a meter. But next year....I think I'll give you all a run for the money.
Like Charlie the Tuna...."we don't want speakers with good sound...we want speakers that sound good." Just look at what "no highs, no lows, must be Bose did with their stuff.
With that in mind, I'm trying to build a system that will impress a maximum # of ears...this won't be competeing, as until I bring an IASCA show to town, there simply won't be one here.
That being said, I really was hoping to get into the competition scene this year, but I got engaged, so I got a ring instead of a meter. But next year....I think I'll give you all a run for the money.
02-20-2005, 03:11 PM
#128
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 870
And holy **** what's with all the animosity on here? Don't you guys have wives to bicker with?
The best part of this job, is playing with toys for big boys, with other people's money....the worst thing is when you finally finish a job.....it's gone...if you're smart, you get a night or two to enjoy the fruits of your labour, pat yourself on the back, and move on to bigger and better things (hopefully having learned a thing or two).
So I'm gonna try the ported door idea....had too many guys blowing their doors trying to get the girls excited, so maybe this will keep the excursion to a minimum,and have a bit more impact. I think I'll try porting the subs and mid bass too...could end up being a phase shift nightmare, but I'll learn eh? And what car is NOT a phase shift nightmare anyways...maybe I'll get lucky.
So what can I use to make some ports? Been thinkin all day (during commercial breaks from the race of course) Maybe flatten some 4" ABS tube and bend it? or do I have to mould it all?
I guess I don't need a long port, but I want enough area that I don't have any noise.
How did you build yours Defro?
The best part of this job, is playing with toys for big boys, with other people's money....the worst thing is when you finally finish a job.....it's gone...if you're smart, you get a night or two to enjoy the fruits of your labour, pat yourself on the back, and move on to bigger and better things (hopefully having learned a thing or two).
So I'm gonna try the ported door idea....had too many guys blowing their doors trying to get the girls excited, so maybe this will keep the excursion to a minimum,and have a bit more impact. I think I'll try porting the subs and mid bass too...could end up being a phase shift nightmare, but I'll learn eh? And what car is NOT a phase shift nightmare anyways...maybe I'll get lucky.
So what can I use to make some ports? Been thinkin all day (during commercial breaks from the race of course) Maybe flatten some 4" ABS tube and bend it? or do I have to mould it all?
I guess I don't need a long port, but I want enough area that I don't have any noise.
How did you build yours Defro?
