Front Stage
Thread Starter
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
Thread Starter
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
That was the intended location, but the frame rail sits dead center under it. One option is to do a 6" lift on the chassis...but I'm not too fond of that on a tow vehicle. I haven't given up on it...just patiently looking at my options.
Well time flies when you're having fun...and I was having a grand old time at the shop until I noticed the time on my cell phone. (The computer times are all wacked) One could call my session "progress", but it was more like a carnage festival!
First, I found that my Alpine 7996 deck which has been sitting on a shelf for 3+ years doesn't have a working volume control. It's either full volume, or nothing when turning the volume between "0" and "1". Secondly, I fired up the PXA-H900 and found that the display screen is mysteriously blank. I tried reseting the H900...but the same result. So with the H900 down, I was left with only a full volume source unit for music testing.
The music test was more or less a session to get aquainted with the amps. I used a pair of home theater speakers with quick disconnects at the amps to switch things up. One thing is for sure, the "smallest" amp in the test had *****...and things just got stupid loud from there....
Here's a rundown on the amps I had assembled:
Arc Audio XXK 4150 - 4 X 100w @ 4 ohm
Audison VRx 2.400 - 2 X 270w @ 4 ohm
Treo SSX 200.2 - 2 X 200w @ 4 ohm
First up, I ran the Audison which had lots of oomph right out of the gate. Then I switched to one of the Treo amps (I have 2 of them) which was suprisingly close in level and clarity. I even ran the left speaker off the Audison and the right off the Treo, which resulted in some decent music playback. Both amps were set at the minimum gain setting, which was still pretty loud.
Next, I busted open the XXK 4150 to set the rail voltage down for bridging. (I have previously adjust it to give maximum voltage across 4 channels at 4 ohms) With the rail voltage set 0.5v above the factory setting, I bridged the amp to give a solid 320+ watts per channel. Music playback was as expected a bit louder than the other 2 amps, more suprising though was that the amp sounded less clear than the other 2. A quick inspection of the settings, and I found that I was using the High Pass filter. With the HP filter defeated, the XXK put on a serious concert with clarity that matched the Audison.
One funny thing I found while I was doing setup work for this test: With all the amps powered up, only the Audison got warm. The Arc and Treo amps remained cold to the touch. Under use, the Audison seemed to put out the most heat followed by the XXK, and then the Treo amp. I think the centerally mounted cooling fans on the bottom of both the Arc and Treo amps makes a bigger difference than the semi-external fan kit I have installed on the Audison.
Next, I got a bit power hungry and bridged the two Treo amps to give 700w into 4 ohms. Again, with the gain settings on mininum, the music level was full of impact and slam. I love power...and these amps have it in spades. Just for reference, I tried enabling both the high pass filter, and the sub sonic filters on each amp. A predictable result, the music sounded less clear and dynamic, although I could turn the gains up on the amps a little bit without worry.
Content that all the amps sounded good, I moved on to testing the drivers I intend to use. I couldn't resist putting the Audiom 6WMs on the bridged Treos, and boy did they sing with music. Then I fired up the LMS computer, and found a really remarkable thing: The Audiom mids play a LOT higher than the spec sheet from Focal shows. In fact, the difference in frequency response is so great, that I have to question whether the spec sheet that Focal releases is for another driver. (It really is that far off) These mids play past 5khz with ease, but the bottom end isn't that great. I then started doing tone testing at varying power levels to try gauge the limits of the driver. Yes this driver will play 115 db free-air, but you don't want to push it too far past there. I elicited the "burned voicecoil" smell from one of the drivers when doing progressive level testing at 500 hz. On top of that, it now has a weird buzzing sound at all frequencies which means I probably toasted the driver. It did play VERY loud prior to that...so I'm hopeful I can get find a replacement. More carnage.
Next I hooked up a Focal 21V2 sub. These are most certainly subwoofers, as they didn't like to play midbass signals above 100hz with clarity or authority. Again, I think I roasted a voicecoil a little bit, but the sub survived. These Treo amps bridged are brutal, dishing out more current than these 8s have ever seen before. I thought I was rough on them before with the Audison VRx 1.500 putting out 500w to each driver. Apparently that was probably their limit...
So in conclusion: I need a bigger and better suited midbass, and I need to find at least 1 more Audiom 6WM.
I'll post some pictures of the new Treo amps later...I'm really starting to like em!
Well time flies when you're having fun...and I was having a grand old time at the shop until I noticed the time on my cell phone. (The computer times are all wacked) One could call my session "progress", but it was more like a carnage festival!
First, I found that my Alpine 7996 deck which has been sitting on a shelf for 3+ years doesn't have a working volume control. It's either full volume, or nothing when turning the volume between "0" and "1". Secondly, I fired up the PXA-H900 and found that the display screen is mysteriously blank. I tried reseting the H900...but the same result. So with the H900 down, I was left with only a full volume source unit for music testing.
The music test was more or less a session to get aquainted with the amps. I used a pair of home theater speakers with quick disconnects at the amps to switch things up. One thing is for sure, the "smallest" amp in the test had *****...and things just got stupid loud from there....
Here's a rundown on the amps I had assembled:
Arc Audio XXK 4150 - 4 X 100w @ 4 ohm
Audison VRx 2.400 - 2 X 270w @ 4 ohm
Treo SSX 200.2 - 2 X 200w @ 4 ohm
First up, I ran the Audison which had lots of oomph right out of the gate. Then I switched to one of the Treo amps (I have 2 of them) which was suprisingly close in level and clarity. I even ran the left speaker off the Audison and the right off the Treo, which resulted in some decent music playback. Both amps were set at the minimum gain setting, which was still pretty loud.
Next, I busted open the XXK 4150 to set the rail voltage down for bridging. (I have previously adjust it to give maximum voltage across 4 channels at 4 ohms) With the rail voltage set 0.5v above the factory setting, I bridged the amp to give a solid 320+ watts per channel. Music playback was as expected a bit louder than the other 2 amps, more suprising though was that the amp sounded less clear than the other 2. A quick inspection of the settings, and I found that I was using the High Pass filter. With the HP filter defeated, the XXK put on a serious concert with clarity that matched the Audison.
One funny thing I found while I was doing setup work for this test: With all the amps powered up, only the Audison got warm. The Arc and Treo amps remained cold to the touch. Under use, the Audison seemed to put out the most heat followed by the XXK, and then the Treo amp. I think the centerally mounted cooling fans on the bottom of both the Arc and Treo amps makes a bigger difference than the semi-external fan kit I have installed on the Audison.
Next, I got a bit power hungry and bridged the two Treo amps to give 700w into 4 ohms. Again, with the gain settings on mininum, the music level was full of impact and slam. I love power...and these amps have it in spades. Just for reference, I tried enabling both the high pass filter, and the sub sonic filters on each amp. A predictable result, the music sounded less clear and dynamic, although I could turn the gains up on the amps a little bit without worry.
Content that all the amps sounded good, I moved on to testing the drivers I intend to use. I couldn't resist putting the Audiom 6WMs on the bridged Treos, and boy did they sing with music. Then I fired up the LMS computer, and found a really remarkable thing: The Audiom mids play a LOT higher than the spec sheet from Focal shows. In fact, the difference in frequency response is so great, that I have to question whether the spec sheet that Focal releases is for another driver. (It really is that far off) These mids play past 5khz with ease, but the bottom end isn't that great. I then started doing tone testing at varying power levels to try gauge the limits of the driver. Yes this driver will play 115 db free-air, but you don't want to push it too far past there. I elicited the "burned voicecoil" smell from one of the drivers when doing progressive level testing at 500 hz. On top of that, it now has a weird buzzing sound at all frequencies which means I probably toasted the driver. It did play VERY loud prior to that...so I'm hopeful I can get find a replacement. More carnage.
Next I hooked up a Focal 21V2 sub. These are most certainly subwoofers, as they didn't like to play midbass signals above 100hz with clarity or authority. Again, I think I roasted a voicecoil a little bit, but the sub survived. These Treo amps bridged are brutal, dishing out more current than these 8s have ever seen before. I thought I was rough on them before with the Audison VRx 1.500 putting out 500w to each driver. Apparently that was probably their limit...
So in conclusion: I need a bigger and better suited midbass, and I need to find at least 1 more Audiom 6WM.
I'll post some pictures of the new Treo amps later...I'm really starting to like em!
Last edited by PEI330Ci; Feb 12, 2009 at 11:15 PM.
Thread Starter
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
I can still smell the toasty voice coils...and I'm at home!!!
Fun.
Some pics from unpacking the Treo amps:
I love the aluminum finish...reminds me of a Krell.
Connections:
Cooling fan:
Machined aluminum end plates slide out to give access to connections:
...and I couldn't resist taking it apart:
Overall a really solid chassis. My only complaint at this time is that it doesn't accept 4awg wire directly, you have to use a spade lug to connect to the power terminals with that size wire. The RCA connections are SOLID...probably the most beefy pieces I've seen on a car amp. I dare say if you used a set of WBT connectors locked onto them, you could swing the amp around like a weapon without worry. Solid piece.
I also started breaking in one of these monsters:
With 2kw on tap, it showed some serious excursion free-air. At 60, 80, and 100hz I ran the amp into soft clipping, and it handled it like a champ. This is clearly a subwoofer though...it doesn't like higher frequencies at high power. (Hey...I had to try) I can't wait to get the pair of these properly mounted into a tuned box with correct filters, they are going to eat up the 2kw each no problem!
Looks like I need to search ebay for another pair of Audiom 6WMs unless someone has a pair stashed away they'd like to send me.
Fun.
Some pics from unpacking the Treo amps:
I love the aluminum finish...reminds me of a Krell.
Connections:
Cooling fan:
Machined aluminum end plates slide out to give access to connections:
...and I couldn't resist taking it apart:
Overall a really solid chassis. My only complaint at this time is that it doesn't accept 4awg wire directly, you have to use a spade lug to connect to the power terminals with that size wire. The RCA connections are SOLID...probably the most beefy pieces I've seen on a car amp. I dare say if you used a set of WBT connectors locked onto them, you could swing the amp around like a weapon without worry. Solid piece.
I also started breaking in one of these monsters:
With 2kw on tap, it showed some serious excursion free-air. At 60, 80, and 100hz I ran the amp into soft clipping, and it handled it like a champ. This is clearly a subwoofer though...it doesn't like higher frequencies at high power. (Hey...I had to try) I can't wait to get the pair of these properly mounted into a tuned box with correct filters, they are going to eat up the 2kw each no problem!
Looks like I need to search ebay for another pair of Audiom 6WMs unless someone has a pair stashed away they'd like to send me.
Thread Starter
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
I was able to save the Audiom 6WM with a bit of help from some 600grit sandpaper. With the phase plug removed, I placed a piece of 600grit sandpaper between the pole piece and the voice coil with the rough side against the epoxy on the voice coil. (The sandpaper covered almost 360 degrees around the pole piece) I then played a 40 hz tone with enough amplitude to move the cone a couple of mm in each direction. Holding the sandpaper stationary by hand, any high points on the voice coil were sanded down. (Again, this was on the inside of the voice coil, not where the wire is wrapped around the outside)
It did take a few tries to get the desired result, but driver now is free from buzzing.
I did a few sweeps with LMS to compare the 2 mids, and they are very very close to each other in response. I can't be more accurate than a couple of DB at this point without using better testing techniques. (Properly mounted driver, super quiet environment)
I will say that this driver appears to be an unknown gem. It's frequency response is much wider than originally spec'd from Focal (looks to be good up to 4khz easily) and it's dynamic output is phenominal. (Keep in mind most high end pro-sound drivers are usually 10-12" to hit 115db comfortably)
The Tahoe has failed my final assessment as an SQ canidate. There is just too much cutting and fabrication required to properly install my intended components, and the vehicle would be left somewhat unusable. So I'm now looking for another canidate, one that I can spend as much time as I would like on it and not worry about it's practicalities as a daily driver.
So until I can sort out the H900 issue, and find a new install canidate, all the goodies have been packed back away in their boxes to come out and play another day.
It did take a few tries to get the desired result, but driver now is free from buzzing.
I did a few sweeps with LMS to compare the 2 mids, and they are very very close to each other in response. I can't be more accurate than a couple of DB at this point without using better testing techniques. (Properly mounted driver, super quiet environment)
I will say that this driver appears to be an unknown gem. It's frequency response is much wider than originally spec'd from Focal (looks to be good up to 4khz easily) and it's dynamic output is phenominal. (Keep in mind most high end pro-sound drivers are usually 10-12" to hit 115db comfortably)
The Tahoe has failed my final assessment as an SQ canidate. There is just too much cutting and fabrication required to properly install my intended components, and the vehicle would be left somewhat unusable. So I'm now looking for another canidate, one that I can spend as much time as I would like on it and not worry about it's practicalities as a daily driver.
So until I can sort out the H900 issue, and find a new install canidate, all the goodies have been packed back away in their boxes to come out and play another day.
Yankee
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
instead of the alpine unit... go pro
REALLY glad I didn't buy the F#1 now...
As for the Audiom issue, to me it seemed you went fishing for burnt voice coil.., and you caught your limit! I guess in this case (since it didn't stay broken) you did a magic smoke catch and release
REALLY glad I didn't buy the F#1 now...
As for the Audiom issue, to me it seemed you went fishing for burnt voice coil.., and you caught your limit! I guess in this case (since it didn't stay broken) you did a magic smoke catch and release
Thread Starter
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
instead of the alpine unit... go pro
REALLY glad I didn't buy the F#1 now...
As for the Audiom issue, to me it seemed you went fishing for burnt voice coil.., and you caught your limit! I guess in this case (since it didn't stay broken) you did a magic smoke catch and release
REALLY glad I didn't buy the F#1 now...
As for the Audiom issue, to me it seemed you went fishing for burnt voice coil.., and you caught your limit! I guess in this case (since it didn't stay broken) you did a magic smoke catch and release
I don't know what I was thinking putting so much power into the 6WMs...lesson learned.
Adam, get a quote on the Alpine......... and see what the damage is. If it's a lot of dough, look at some options. I can't really throw out anything idea wise as I've been out of the SQ loop as far as equipment goes for processing currently. But I'm sure someone is into something.
Has anyone done anything with computers .......... I would have thought with all the tech now available, someone would have a home computer installed in the car with an infinite number of bands for tuning in the digital format. The sound cards now available are pretty impressive. The rest is all programming and there's got to be some PRO audio software somewhere that could be used.
Has anyone done anything with computers .......... I would have thought with all the tech now available, someone would have a home computer installed in the car with an infinite number of bands for tuning in the digital format. The sound cards now available are pretty impressive. The rest is all programming and there's got to be some PRO audio software somewhere that could be used.
