Cost no object midbass
12-04-2007, 02:26 PM
#61
[QUOTE=SUX 2BU;287096]^ Is that what those things cost? Wow. Crazy.
QUOTE]
that is if you can even get a pair....there was only 5 sets
of the 660's released to Canada and they are back ordered
in the US...I got 2 of them
you are not paying for just midbass though...you get
the whole 9 yards...these comps lack nothing
it is mind boggling on how hard these things can be pushed
they bounce my rear view mirror with out the subs
for a set of add on midbass for a system these AVI BSM-160's
are really amazing...
BSM-160 Mid Bass
they are a really hard hitter and sound very good
QUOTE]
that is if you can even get a pair....there was only 5 sets
of the 660's released to Canada and they are back ordered
in the US...I got 2 of them
you are not paying for just midbass though...you get
the whole 9 yards...these comps lack nothing
it is mind boggling on how hard these things can be pushed
they bounce my rear view mirror with out the subs
for a set of add on midbass for a system these AVI BSM-160's
are really amazing...
BSM-160 Mid Bass
they are a really hard hitter and sound very good
12-04-2007, 03:34 PM
#63
The reason for the split in the top plate is for the shorting ring. It cannot be easily put there without the top plate being made in two pieces. If done right, this doesn't appreciably affect gap flux in the upper gap and the positive effects of the shorting ring can be substantial.
12-04-2007, 10:18 PM
#64
The reason for the split in the top plate is for the shorting ring. It cannot be easily put there without the top plate being made in two pieces. If done right, this doesn't appreciably affect gap flux in the upper gap and the positive effects of the shorting ring can be substantial.
I ask because previous xbl drivers with a single slug topplate still easily used shorting rings in the usable gaps....
If this is accurate I must assume the motors use a third shorting ring in the area cut out between the two gaps in the top plate ??
12-05-2007, 04:11 PM
#65
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3
And you know this as fact ?
I ask because previous xbl drivers with a single slug top plate still easily used shorting rings in the usable gaps....
I ask because previous xbl drivers with a single slug top plate still easily used shorting rings in the usable gaps....
It is possible to use a separate pole cap (to form the upper gap which allows for a ring in the pole piece rebate. None of the Adire or ascendant drivers used this. I believe that currently, maybe this CSS driver and the GR driver use that technique, though Dan is probably doing this with drivers through is new business. Is that what you're referring to? If not, please clarify.
12-07-2007, 03:08 AM
#67
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 148
I've used morel, avi, kef, lots of dyns (even adapted a dyn twin set to my old rocco) eclipse, seas, scans, IDs over the years and the best I've come across taking sound quality and value into account is the focal 270v3 set but ya need to be able to mount the 11" midbass as well as the 5.25 mid and tweet. You can get the mid bass seperatly tho it's an amazing driver for the money.
Last time I used em was in an Infinity G35 upfront in custom doors with the mid and tweet in custom pillars the impact depth and stage was mind boggling. I only used a focal 2150 amp to power them. But looooooots of sound deadening in the doors to keep em tight and high passed at @50hz.
Since size is a concern 5.25 or 6.5 KP drivers are nice (if possible build an enclosure for them or healthy amounts of sound deadening when installing free air in the door). My home/reference setup is full KP car in custom enclosures/ crossovers I made.
Alot of the other high end offering are great but hardly worth the investment IMO the Utopia Be Is amazing but hardly worth the money as are other manufacturers top end.
When it comes to good midbass the driver is only half the equation install is the rest
Last time I used em was in an Infinity G35 upfront in custom doors with the mid and tweet in custom pillars the impact depth and stage was mind boggling. I only used a focal 2150 amp to power them. But looooooots of sound deadening in the doors to keep em tight and high passed at @50hz.
Since size is a concern 5.25 or 6.5 KP drivers are nice (if possible build an enclosure for them or healthy amounts of sound deadening when installing free air in the door). My home/reference setup is full KP car in custom enclosures/ crossovers I made.
Alot of the other high end offering are great but hardly worth the investment IMO the Utopia Be Is amazing but hardly worth the money as are other manufacturers top end.
When it comes to good midbass the driver is only half the equation install is the rest
12-08-2007, 11:35 PM
#68
Yes. I worked at Adire Audio and have since done drivers with shorting rings (including XBL^2 designs) elsewhere.
It is possible to use a separate pole cap (to form the upper gap which allows for a ring in the pole piece rebate. None of the Adire or ascendant drivers used this. I believe that currently, maybe this CSS driver and the GR driver use that technique, though Dan is probably doing this with drivers through is new business. Is that what you're referring to? If not, please clarify.
It is possible to use a separate pole cap (to form the upper gap which allows for a ring in the pole piece rebate. None of the Adire or ascendant drivers used this. I believe that currently, maybe this CSS driver and the GR driver use that technique, though Dan is probably doing this with drivers through is new business. Is that what you're referring to? If not, please clarify.
Now I know I'm going off topic on everyone but I still don't see how an XBL topplate cut in half is going to make it any easier to use shorting rings, partial or full sleeve.
The exception would be if sleeves were used in the topplate recess (labeled 12)... So I guess if that is the case then we must be on the same page....
12-11-2007, 11:38 AM
#69
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3
Yeah. this is a bit OT. Here is a quick rendering to show what I'm talking about. Basically, without going into too much detail, a sleeve is generally not the best way to go for woofers, in that you're effectively widening the gap (as aluminum and copper and DC permeability similar to air).
The issue here is that since the lower frequency effectiveness of a shorting ring is set by its thickness you can actually hurt distortion at low frequency by putting in a sleeve (which is only helping at mid and higher frequencies). By the time you get the ring thick enough to be effective at low frequencies, you've thrown away a ton of gap flux and the operating point of your magnets is much lower. As such, these magnet and top plate rings are attractive as they don't effectively increase gap width. The same goes for rings below a standard undercut pole (though you are decreasing the flux carrying capacity of the pole). In any case, this is a somewhat oversimplified but sufficiently boring explanation - there are a lot of approaches that work and, like any engineering, a balance of compromises.
The issue here is that since the lower frequency effectiveness of a shorting ring is set by its thickness you can actually hurt distortion at low frequency by putting in a sleeve (which is only helping at mid and higher frequencies). By the time you get the ring thick enough to be effective at low frequencies, you've thrown away a ton of gap flux and the operating point of your magnets is much lower. As such, these magnet and top plate rings are attractive as they don't effectively increase gap width. The same goes for rings below a standard undercut pole (though you are decreasing the flux carrying capacity of the pole). In any case, this is a somewhat oversimplified but sufficiently boring explanation - there are a lot of approaches that work and, like any engineering, a balance of compromises.
12-11-2007, 11:02 PM
#70
well its nice to know that even though I was wrong about cost cutting, my intuition was still able to tell me where the shorting rings must be in this new XBL^2 design.... 
Thanks for the heads up Crispy...
sometimes I learn the most when a thread goes OT.... hope you stick around CCA !
Thanks for the heads up Crispy...
sometimes I learn the most when a thread goes OT.... hope you stick around CCA !
