Let's Seperate Myth From Fact....
12-23-2009, 02:29 PM
#101
500 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 730
Right, BUT if I add more speakers, will it sound better? That's the question. I'm not talking about positioning. Who cares where the sound is coming from, the question is do more speakers make what you are hearing "better"? I understand "better" is a point of view, hence why it's quoted... You've deepened it by bringing 2-way and 3-way speakers into the mix. So my answer to this is simple. No. A high quality coaxial, 2-way, 3-way, or whatever, WILL sound better than a low quality component. I'm not talking about certain brands that make a better "low end" than another's "high end", I'm speaking in general here. A low end component is a low end component, no matter who makes it. Alas, it's not how many speakers you have, it's the quality that counts. Now, to say simply that isn't enough, especially if you are talking to an SQ competitor. When talking about a flat frequency response, we all know that there is no such thing as the perfect response speaker. So, to compensate, a combination of speakers (usually 3 or 4) each accurately reproducing a given bandpass to achieve an overall flat response is the key. They are not the same size, and are most times not even the same brand of speaker. If I have 6 of the same speakers that, in my car, happen to have a dip in frequency response around 1,000Hz then I haven't fixed the problem by multiplying the same speakers, I've just made the system louder. Of course assuming equal power is applied to all. I need to select another driver to compliment the first so I can achieve a flat response overall.
But Mr. Moments.... That sounds like more speakers IS the answer! No. Not that simple. If you have a poorly installed system, or poor quality speakers, or both, it will not reproduce sound accurately, (no matter who recorded it or how they want it to sound) regardless of how many speakers you throw at it. So, in the end, what makes "better" sound is having speakers that reproduce sound the way you want it to be heard, and having them installed properly. To go from a vehicle that has only a pair of components running off of a deck and that's it, to a top ranking SQ competitor's vehicle that has, oh, let's say a 4 way fully active system amped and using processors and the works only to draw the conclusion that it's better because there is more speakers... Well, you can tell from the way I described the two vehicles, it's pretty easy to see that there's a lot more going on than just more speakers. High quality components in the entire system have been selected and installed properly. If I'm someone who's never heard anything other than my low quality coaxials just installed into a factory hole in the door, it may sound awesome to me until I hear better. Just to assume that if I add more speakers it'll be better is all too common of a mistake. There's lot's of money changing hands under false pretenses and it's a shame. Hence why people will buy component speakers for the better sound, but they if aren't installed properly, there will be dissappointment. Or spend a whole bunch of coin on high end speakers but don't have the install or other components to back up the quality.
But Mr. Moments.... That sounds like more speakers IS the answer! No. Not that simple. If you have a poorly installed system, or poor quality speakers, or both, it will not reproduce sound accurately, (no matter who recorded it or how they want it to sound) regardless of how many speakers you throw at it. So, in the end, what makes "better" sound is having speakers that reproduce sound the way you want it to be heard, and having them installed properly. To go from a vehicle that has only a pair of components running off of a deck and that's it, to a top ranking SQ competitor's vehicle that has, oh, let's say a 4 way fully active system amped and using processors and the works only to draw the conclusion that it's better because there is more speakers... Well, you can tell from the way I described the two vehicles, it's pretty easy to see that there's a lot more going on than just more speakers. High quality components in the entire system have been selected and installed properly. If I'm someone who's never heard anything other than my low quality coaxials just installed into a factory hole in the door, it may sound awesome to me until I hear better. Just to assume that if I add more speakers it'll be better is all too common of a mistake. There's lot's of money changing hands under false pretenses and it's a shame. Hence why people will buy component speakers for the better sound, but they if aren't installed properly, there will be dissappointment. Or spend a whole bunch of coin on high end speakers but don't have the install or other components to back up the quality.
Last edited by RomanticMoments; 12-23-2009 at 02:31 PM.
12-23-2009, 03:50 PM
#102
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 16,855
More than what?
More than one individual driver? Absolutely.
More than 2? Extremely likely.
More than 3? Very likely.
My first "maybe" comes when going from 5 individual drivers (2 tweet, 2 mid, 1 sub) to 6 individual drivers.
I'm a 3way+sub guy, so a minimum of 7 speakers. IMO a 2way+sub system can sound as good or maybe even better but I like a 3way front end.
I even cut it down 
12-23-2009, 04:26 PM
#105
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
... lots of good stuff
coaxial, in theory the best design for a dome and cone 2 way as the natural time alignment of the speakers is done by sinking the tweeter into the woofers vent. This gets as close as you can to a point source which has some real advantages to it. Theil, KEF, Cabasse, Tannoy, and TAD (my personal favorite) have been doing this for up to 60 years or so. These are expensive precision speakers so it is not the low cost item we are used to seeing in car audio. And I have to say a coax of the highest quality may not give you what your looking for in a car since the available spaces for installation dont always work so well (sometimes you just cant get a kick to image other vehicles it is a breeze, sometimes a speaker in a door always draws attention to the door) and not too many people put 6" coax in their A-pillar. Not too many are competing with coax today but I do have it on good authority that someone was using the Tannoy coax and they won a lot of big shows.
coaxial, in theory the best design for a dome and cone 2 way as the natural time alignment of the speakers is done by sinking the tweeter into the woofers vent. This gets as close as you can to a point source which has some real advantages to it. Theil, KEF, Cabasse, Tannoy, and TAD (my personal favorite) have been doing this for up to 60 years or so. These are expensive precision speakers so it is not the low cost item we are used to seeing in car audio. And I have to say a coax of the highest quality may not give you what your looking for in a car since the available spaces for installation dont always work so well (sometimes you just cant get a kick to image other vehicles it is a breeze, sometimes a speaker in a door always draws attention to the door) and not too many people put 6" coax in their A-pillar. Not too many are competing with coax today but I do have it on good authority that someone was using the Tannoy coax and they won a lot of big shows.
12-23-2009, 05:19 PM
#108
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
A current fad is more speakers is better, and even more speakers are better yet 4-5 midbass 3-4 tweeters, 4-10 subs... is that SQ? well this kind of a build does not even consider accurate staging and with all the amps there is usually a ground issue, and then there is the uneven frequency response. Now when these guys turn it up and you can hear the full range sound from 100 yards away! Let me tell you that IS kind of fun... in a permanent hearing loss kind of way. Definitely a party on wheels but it does not 'play to the soul' it is more demonstrative... it is basically broadcasting sound like an SPLer does
But can multiple drivers provide a more realistic sound stage. I too tend to run with 3 way front stages and a sub or two that seems to maximize the positive traits of each driver. I have heard a number of folks with multiple midbasses produce an extremely accurate stage but usually the more drivers involved the more confusion in the stage. This is not a rule as one of the best sounding cars around a couple years ago had a row of 5 or 6 scanspeak revelators on the dash by the window line. It took a while to get the design 'right' but when it was right it had it all. I would never recommend to anyone (who I wanted to keep as a friend) using more than 2 woofers or tweeters (not talking about subs) as the complexity is on every level of the build and it usually doesn't perform to the level of $ investment or in the time invested.
But can multiple drivers provide a more realistic sound stage. I too tend to run with 3 way front stages and a sub or two that seems to maximize the positive traits of each driver. I have heard a number of folks with multiple midbasses produce an extremely accurate stage but usually the more drivers involved the more confusion in the stage. This is not a rule as one of the best sounding cars around a couple years ago had a row of 5 or 6 scanspeak revelators on the dash by the window line. It took a while to get the design 'right' but when it was right it had it all. I would never recommend to anyone (who I wanted to keep as a friend) using more than 2 woofers or tweeters (not talking about subs) as the complexity is on every level of the build and it usually doesn't perform to the level of $ investment or in the time invested.
12-23-2009, 09:10 PM
#110
I think as hard as we try to get a definitive answer on anything around here we find ourselves asking more questions. I think everyone has answered the question by saying depends on the application, but I think adding mor drivers and particularly of the same kind or size will only garner you one thing, empphasis on a certain frequency range such as midbass. I would like to post the next question then if everyone is satisfied with this topic being answered. When choosing drivers for car audio do you go by; brand, instalation requirements, what others are using, etc...... Just curious as to what makes people decide to use the components they chose. We could go even further but this would be a good start I think.
