vrdublu

iTrader: (5)

Agreed and disagree: I will start off by saying that car audio is horrible to the audio enthusiast, and by that I mean with the heat the cold the cramped space, the rattles, the buzzes from somewhere etc etc. T/A is the most important thing in car audio along with EQ because of the fact you do not sit in a rectangular room with corner traps and subs placed a 1/3 of the way either side of the wall. So, of course it's a bandaid but a necesity nontheless. It not only addresses some weaknesses but the biggest one of all, "staging" you have speakers separated usually and reflecting off windows doors seats etc etc, most of the time you look for speakers that play better off axis instead of on axis, this is audio hell imho. You cannot set up a proper stage when your guitar player is on the left right behind you and in the middle. Of course spending a month building proper kicks aiming speakers then realizing they are not right and starting from scratch again also works. But running a 3-way active system or even better 4-way active with T/A and properly eq'ing will almost be as good as a home setup, only difference is, it will cost you 3x as much. I think the key is not to overcomplicate things and spend less on really shiny equipment and setup properly and have a goal on what you plan to achieve with components that work well together. Damn I could go on forever like this, I'm almost done though.

P.S. How do you setup T/A improperly? It's automated !! It's certainly a good starting point for whatever sounds good to you. Don't get me wrong, T/A "'is not the solution to everything" but T/A with EQ is a good start in showing you what good sound should sound like in the car and at home, particularly with HT.

jstoner22

iTrader: (1)

"P.S. How do you setup T/A improperly? It's automated !! It's certainly a good starting point for whatever sounds good to you. Don't get me wrong, T/A "'is not the solution to everything" but T/A with EQ is a good start in showing you what good sound should sound like in the car and at home, particularly with HT. "


first off, very few decks have automated T/A.

second, saying it will "show you what good sound should sound like" is again implying that it is the proper way... everyone percieves sound differently and has their own idea of what good sound is.

RomanticMoments

A car audio install is about overcoming the challenges of a car and the audio deficiencies! Proper placement negates time alignment.... Question here.... Would you rather an installer that takes the time to install things properly or just rely on technological (and easy) bandaids like T/A?

jstoner22

iTrader: (1)

proper setup.

t/a and eq'ing should only be used as a finishing touch, if needed at all.

imo.

vrdublu

iTrader: (5)

This is why this is a continuation of an earlier thread about SQ decks where I mentioned the 880PRS and the 800PRS as being great decks for the $$$$. They both have auto T/A and EQ that works almsot flawlessly. Yes you are right Mr.NitPick at my words and add nothing to the conversation that wasn't already said, lol. What I meant was, it will help you achieve a better understanding of what a recording was supposed to sound like, I was not trying to imply directly that it made better SQ, although it really does when you set it up.

Now if we could only push the speakers another 6' back so they summed up properly, oh well that's yet another thread.

vrdublu

iTrader: (5)

You either own an install shop or love spending $$$, GL. I agree with you but it is an impossibility to place speakers properly in a car, it is as big a myth as SQ. The speakers would littelraly have to be outside the car, or the car would have to be your living room 10'x16' on wheels.

jstoner22

iTrader: (1)

lol, i wasn't trying to add anything there other than time alignment is not all automated and can be set up incorrectly. you asked, i answered
and that sq is subjective, so it shouldn't be stated that t/a always makes it better.

Denonite

iTrader: (1)

obviously it's not necessary...many excellent systems now and years before without it. Can it help, sure it can, and particularly with less elaborate installs. Not everyone is willing to spend 5Gs on the install alone, but good quality speakers coupled with reasonable use of TA and EQ can give good results. I have a decent system with a pxa-h701 and quite frankly I find the TA just makes my system sound different, not better, just different. I can and have had it off for months without realizing it was off and liked my system as much as with it on. As far as EQ, still haven't needed to use it, and I'm a tweeker...that's why I got the 701. I just find my system sounds damn good without too many things going on. Even the XO settings I find just makes it sound different, but not better(changing slopes, xo points within reasonable ranges etc...). I guess my point is, if your system is set up and installed properly from the get go, you're probably about 90% there...everything else is more for amusement and maybe finding that last few % of audio exstacy. I must be happy with it...haven't changed anything for 3 years now. By the way, my system is installed in the stock locations, but with proper support and dampening, and with good use of noise control.

RomanticMoments

WHAT?!?!?! That makes no sense! Sorry dude, but using that logic, I'd have to have a 10'x16' listening area for any form of SQ. Hence why I said placement is key. The idea is to make the listening area sound the way the artist intended it. I can make a 10'x16' room sound like a 5'x11' room if I want. The same can be said the opposite way. It all depends on where you are in relation to the "sound stage" and how realistic it sounds. Widening the sound stage too far has the same adverse effects as narrowing it too far. Like I said, the install is about overcoming deficiencies, T/A among other enhancements only mask the real problem. Yes, car audio is a much larger challenge than H.T. but again, it all comes down to the install and the quality of the components (can't leave quality out or I'll get an Airwalk in the poop chute lol). Yes SQ is a bit of a myth on it's own, as people have different tastes in what they like to hear, but not everyone knows or has experienced a high quality reproduction of music, so is it myth or ignorance????

Rant over... Jeeze.... Isn't this fun?

RomanticMoments

Providing you have found a combination of speakers that gives you as flat of a response as you want to hear, the rest comes down to the install. Certain materials and placements of equipment will directly impact what you are hearing. T/A and EQ adjustments are ALWAYS a compromise at best, so you will almost always have to look to the listening area as the biggest challenge and install to optimize it. This is true in a theater, concert hall, home, or car.