Why Wires All Sounds The Same (Speaker Level)
06-01-2005, 10:24 PM
#32
Obviously do not sell expensive cable with a $59.00 DVD player...The customer buying a $59.00 DVD player is buying it for one reason only....the price.
Now take a customer who spends $1000.00 on a high-end Denon or Pioneer Elite (or whatever) DVD player....There is nothing wrong in selling him a $200.00 Component Video cable....He is buying the $1000.00 DVD player because he can afford or appreciates better quality things. At that level, a $200.00 cable probably performs better than a $20.00 cable.
Now take a customer who spends $1000.00 on a high-end Denon or Pioneer Elite (or whatever) DVD player....There is nothing wrong in selling him a $200.00 Component Video cable....He is buying the $1000.00 DVD player because he can afford or appreciates better quality things. At that level, a $200.00 cable probably performs better than a $20.00 cable.
06-02-2005, 06:47 AM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
i agree with dwvw, the monster attitude is bizarre. monster does make some cool stuff but the only thing that i stock is the m10s wire, everything else is streetwires. the general concensus that i am gathering here is that some more exspensive speakers/rca cable might make a sound difference, some people might hear it, and others not, and it also might only make a diference if the gear is worthy and blue wire is maybe good but only a little bit better that rona wire thats a different color [img]smile.gif[/img] . i love the wire debate
06-02-2005, 08:51 AM
#35
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52
I think that the cables you choose are all relative to the equipment you purchase... Further more Monsters Cable technologies show a difference in sound quality when monitored on computer equipment when being tested. Who's to say that it is audible or not
06-02-2005, 09:01 AM
#36
Randy, I completely agree with your synopsis. I still disagree though that if the rest of the system is 'worthy' the system will benefit from $100+/ft. speaker cable.
I feel myself get angry when reading anything about Monster's products. They generate massive sales based, from what I can see, on pure marketing BS hype. Let's take that M10s wire for instance. The 'features' it has on it to make 'better' sound is ludicrous. It really makes no sense if you look at it from a logical point of view. Let's take off the voodoophile/emotional/I want to believe it works because it's more expensive hat and put on the logical/makes sense hat. Their features are just hype. Do they publish any kind of white pages on their 'technology' to somehow explain how their miraculous winding and jacketing and 'tubing' procedures make their product better? No, they provide a basic description to try to explain how it works but without any kind of fact behind it. Here's a link to both the M10s and the 'better' M20s:
http://www.monstercable.com/caraudio2/speaker_cable.asp
Read the rather laughable description. Both are touted as being the 'ultimate competition car speaker cable'. Um, if both is the ultimate, then M10s must be the bestest and the M20s bestet-er? [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img] It's silly. TimeCorrect windings? Apparently Monster has figured out how to incorporate time alignment in the winding of a simple copper cable!
The Magnetic Flux Tube, now that just rocks. Makes for better bass apparently. Does it come with a DeLorean too? It's nice looking wire though. With all that technology I'm suprised they only price it at $3 US/ft. Dave, I'm not trying to attack you personally for using it. It's a nice looking cable that is probably nice to install. I just wish Monster would leave out the BS.
What I can see you do pay for is the techflex-style jacketing and probably a high-purity copper content. Speaking of that, copper is considered pure when over 99.3% pure. Only Monsters absolute best speaker wire lists the purity content. But at $250/ft. one wonders why they would not choose silver as their conductor considering copper in it's purist form will only conduct 97% of the electricity of silver. Copper is preferred due to cost. In a cost-no-object item like that wire, why choose copper over silver? Simple. Profit margin.
As for sales generated strictly from consumer's gullibility, one only needs to look at the success of another very long-standing company who has propogated audio BS for decades: Bose.
I love the double-blind test results.
[ June 02, 2005, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: SUX 2BU ]
I feel myself get angry when reading anything about Monster's products. They generate massive sales based, from what I can see, on pure marketing BS hype. Let's take that M10s wire for instance. The 'features' it has on it to make 'better' sound is ludicrous. It really makes no sense if you look at it from a logical point of view. Let's take off the voodoophile/emotional/I want to believe it works because it's more expensive hat and put on the logical/makes sense hat. Their features are just hype. Do they publish any kind of white pages on their 'technology' to somehow explain how their miraculous winding and jacketing and 'tubing' procedures make their product better? No, they provide a basic description to try to explain how it works but without any kind of fact behind it. Here's a link to both the M10s and the 'better' M20s:
http://www.monstercable.com/caraudio2/speaker_cable.asp
Read the rather laughable description. Both are touted as being the 'ultimate competition car speaker cable'. Um, if both is the ultimate, then M10s must be the bestest and the M20s bestet-er? [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img] It's silly. TimeCorrect windings? Apparently Monster has figured out how to incorporate time alignment in the winding of a simple copper cable!
The Magnetic Flux Tube, now that just rocks. Makes for better bass apparently. Does it come with a DeLorean too? It's nice looking wire though. With all that technology I'm suprised they only price it at $3 US/ft. Dave, I'm not trying to attack you personally for using it. It's a nice looking cable that is probably nice to install. I just wish Monster would leave out the BS.What I can see you do pay for is the techflex-style jacketing and probably a high-purity copper content. Speaking of that, copper is considered pure when over 99.3% pure. Only Monsters absolute best speaker wire lists the purity content. But at $250/ft. one wonders why they would not choose silver as their conductor considering copper in it's purist form will only conduct 97% of the electricity of silver. Copper is preferred due to cost. In a cost-no-object item like that wire, why choose copper over silver? Simple. Profit margin.
As for sales generated strictly from consumer's gullibility, one only needs to look at the success of another very long-standing company who has propogated audio BS for decades: Bose.
I love the double-blind test results.
[ June 02, 2005, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: SUX 2BU ]
06-02-2005, 09:22 AM
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
I love wire discussions. They are better than amp discussions IMO.
Brandon, Mike, Kevin, others - show me one documented case where in a double blind test someone could tell the difference. I only want one and then I will shut up (well, no I won't but I'll concede on the wire issue)
As I have said before - many people say they can hear a difference but for some reason have trouble proving it once they can't see the cables. It is odd, no? I mean if it is SO obvious... [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
I love expensive wire - it looks cool, it's usually pretty, it's exclusive. I've just never found it to make an audible difference to myself or anyone I have conducted a double blind test with.
Personally, I don't use garbage wire. I feel that good quality wire has a lot of benefits. I just don't put 'better sound' in the list..
Brandon, Mike, Kevin, others - show me one documented case where in a double blind test someone could tell the difference. I only want one and then I will shut up (well, no I won't but I'll concede on the wire issue)
As I have said before - many people say they can hear a difference but for some reason have trouble proving it once they can't see the cables. It is odd, no? I mean if it is SO obvious... [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
I love expensive wire - it looks cool, it's usually pretty, it's exclusive. I've just never found it to make an audible difference to myself or anyone I have conducted a double blind test with.
Personally, I don't use garbage wire. I feel that good quality wire has a lot of benefits. I just don't put 'better sound' in the list..
06-02-2005, 01:56 PM
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
i would be the first person to say that the monster marketing machine is relentless, they have become one of if not the biggest wire retailer in the world for audio purposes. their propogamda reads like a comic book. the only product i belive in is the m10s, dollars to dimes its my favorite wire and at 5/foot, it well priced and i sell lots. is it possible that the limits of human hearing and retention might play a role in the a/b testing being what some may call flawed. hearing is a sense that maybe cant be easily explained or justified in a a/b test/
06-02-2005, 05:47 PM
#40
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
^So by looking at the oil after the engine is blown they can tell if it's the specific oil or not? Gimme a break....or do they do forensic tests on the oil to make certain what type of oil it is? Because unless they do that, by looking at the oil, you cannot tell a difference between synthetic and regular, after it's been run through a motor it's dark in colour, how can one possibly tell between 2 oils after they've been run through an engine?
