Why Wires All Sounds The Same (Speaker Level)
06-06-2005, 07:29 PM
#71
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
I agree that there are two sides. I don't presume that I will "convert" anyone to my thinking. I find it very much the other way around.
If $xxx.xx /foot wire makes you happier than $x.xx/foot wire then by all means use it. Just don't tell me that my system will be inferior (or yours somehow superior). I am happy to spend the difference in money on the only audio upgrade that can be 100% garranteed to make a noticable differnce every time:
More cd's.
More cd's.
While I personally don't feel there are sonic differences in wire, I'd take the opinion of someone who is a non-audiophile (more or less like Pusnboobs wife, assuming she just listens and isn't deep into the hobby) and notices a difference and can say what that difference is WAY before from someone all bent on being convinced their silly-expensive wire HAS to be that much better than the cheap stuff. It's about bias and 'innocence' for lack of a better word.
BTW Derecks test of swapping out cables is more 'scientific' than the ABX comparator since there are fewer variables as long as volume is not adjusted. I also use my wife as a 'backup' like Puss-n-***** since she has an exceptional ear and zero bias (I never even show her the cables, so she isn’t motivated to pick the one I already own or the one that is prettiest).
06-06-2005, 07:35 PM
#72
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
BTW though this debate will never end... I much prefer it on CCA than anywhere else, even people who disagree with you read and consider your statements. They may dismiss an opinion contrary to yours but they are not rude and ignorant
Thank you
Thank you
06-09-2005, 10:18 PM
#74
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 923
I will be and I'll let you know.
My new house is being built and the floors are all laminate and tile. No place to hide wire to the rear speakers. I am going to try a wireless system for the rears. The difference between sending signal from my HK amp to the rears via speaker wire or wirelessly should be apparent. I will know in about 4 weeks.
My new house is being built and the floors are all laminate and tile. No place to hide wire to the rear speakers. I am going to try a wireless system for the rears. The difference between sending signal from my HK amp to the rears via speaker wire or wirelessly should be apparent. I will know in about 4 weeks.
06-10-2005, 09:22 AM
#75
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,242
If your house is still being built why not just run the wires under the subfloor?
Or in walls?
Or through the celing?
With all wireless systems (i have seen) you still need wires from the reciever(the wireless speaker reciever that is) to the speakers and a power cord to power the wireless reciever.
Or in walls?
Or through the celing?
With all wireless systems (i have seen) you still need wires from the reciever(the wireless speaker reciever that is) to the speakers and a power cord to power the wireless reciever.
06-11-2005, 04:34 PM
#77
Originally posted by JRace:
If your house is still being built why not just run the wires under the subfloor?
Or in walls?
Or through the celing?
With all wireless systems (i have seen) you still need wires from the reciever(the wireless speaker reciever that is) to the speakers and a power cord to power the wireless reciever.
If your house is still being built why not just run the wires under the subfloor?
Or in walls?
Or through the celing?
With all wireless systems (i have seen) you still need wires from the reciever(the wireless speaker reciever that is) to the speakers and a power cord to power the wireless reciever.
06-22-2005, 10:34 AM
#79
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 17
I believe there are different quality cables but the quality is in the way it is made. A nice flexable cable is worth more money to me because it is easier to install.
As for Monster Cable's sales numbers, yes I do believe there are a lot of gullible (or vain) people out there. I used to work in computer sales / service. I sold two lines of cables, one with a grey covering and one with a clear blue covering. Both cost the same from the supplier but people would pay 50% more to have the clear blue covering.
[ June 22, 2005, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Angus_NB ]
As for Monster Cable's sales numbers, yes I do believe there are a lot of gullible (or vain) people out there. I used to work in computer sales / service. I sold two lines of cables, one with a grey covering and one with a clear blue covering. Both cost the same from the supplier but people would pay 50% more to have the clear blue covering.
[ June 22, 2005, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Angus_NB ]
06-22-2005, 11:03 AM
#80
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 884
Here's a post by David Salz from WireWorld Cables (A highly reputable high-end cable co.) Some might of heard of him.. when he was with Straight Wire Cables. He is the sole cable designer for both companys. He also use a comparator for his cable designs... and yes you could hear the difference.
This post below was takened from a heated Cable disscusion..... in another 12V forum.
David@Wireworld.com Wrote:
I have a real problem with people claiming to possess detailed knowledge on a topic without having done even the most basic research on the subject. This happens all the time on the topic of upgrade audio cables.
If conventional cables didn’t cause audible losses, there would be no need for special cables. A quick comparison of two inches of standard 16 gauge speaker cable, to twenty feet of the same cable, will reveal considerable degradation on any decent audio system. Switching to twenty feet of most 12 gauge cables will cause even greater loss of fidelity in the mids and highs. Such comparisons quickly prove that resistance is not the primary problem in cables. The most amazing thing about this particular effect is that it was discovered over 100 years ago.
In the late 1800’s, telephone companies found that very long phone lines distorted speech so much that it became unintelligible, even though it was still loud enough to hear. British mathematician Oliver Heaviside utilized his transmission line theory to determine that this problem was caused by inductive (electromagnetic) loss, and in 1893 he proposed the solution of increasing the inductive coupling between the two conductors to reduce the inductive loss of the telephone circuit. This solution was implemented in 1900 with telephone loading coils, which are still in use today. These coils are connected at intervals along phone lines to preserve the fidelity and strength of the signal.
The most audible differences among interconnect and speaker cables are also the result of inductive loss. This loss creates tonal coloration and dynamic compression, while masking the finer details of sound. For example, speaker cables with widely spaced conductors exhibit so much inductive loss that they distinctly thin out and compress the sound. High inductance cables also cause obvious rounding of square waves Such test bench measurements can be useful, but the most important cable parameter of all is value, which can only be measured with human perception.
Some people still doubt that the value of any upgrade cables can be proven by a double-blind test. In fact, the ABX cable tests performed by the Audio Engineering Society failed to prove that any cable differences were audible. However, ABX tests also proved to be useless in the development of the compressed audio formats, such as MP3. The only form of double-blind listening tests that have allowed the effects of cables, amplifiers and compressed audio formats to be identified reliably are ‘ABC-hidden reference’ tests. Unlike the ABX cable tests, they utilize a control (no cable or no circuit) and the listener does the switching. I have been facilitating double-blind cable tests for over ten years because they provide valuable answers when they’re done correctly. These answers include proof of the fact that it is possible to engineer audio cables that preserve fidelity far better than generic cables.
[ June 22, 2005, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: SweetnLow91SC ]
This post below was takened from a heated Cable disscusion..... in another 12V forum.
David@Wireworld.com Wrote:
I have a real problem with people claiming to possess detailed knowledge on a topic without having done even the most basic research on the subject. This happens all the time on the topic of upgrade audio cables.
If conventional cables didn’t cause audible losses, there would be no need for special cables. A quick comparison of two inches of standard 16 gauge speaker cable, to twenty feet of the same cable, will reveal considerable degradation on any decent audio system. Switching to twenty feet of most 12 gauge cables will cause even greater loss of fidelity in the mids and highs. Such comparisons quickly prove that resistance is not the primary problem in cables. The most amazing thing about this particular effect is that it was discovered over 100 years ago.
In the late 1800’s, telephone companies found that very long phone lines distorted speech so much that it became unintelligible, even though it was still loud enough to hear. British mathematician Oliver Heaviside utilized his transmission line theory to determine that this problem was caused by inductive (electromagnetic) loss, and in 1893 he proposed the solution of increasing the inductive coupling between the two conductors to reduce the inductive loss of the telephone circuit. This solution was implemented in 1900 with telephone loading coils, which are still in use today. These coils are connected at intervals along phone lines to preserve the fidelity and strength of the signal.
The most audible differences among interconnect and speaker cables are also the result of inductive loss. This loss creates tonal coloration and dynamic compression, while masking the finer details of sound. For example, speaker cables with widely spaced conductors exhibit so much inductive loss that they distinctly thin out and compress the sound. High inductance cables also cause obvious rounding of square waves Such test bench measurements can be useful, but the most important cable parameter of all is value, which can only be measured with human perception.
Some people still doubt that the value of any upgrade cables can be proven by a double-blind test. In fact, the ABX cable tests performed by the Audio Engineering Society failed to prove that any cable differences were audible. However, ABX tests also proved to be useless in the development of the compressed audio formats, such as MP3. The only form of double-blind listening tests that have allowed the effects of cables, amplifiers and compressed audio formats to be identified reliably are ‘ABC-hidden reference’ tests. Unlike the ABX cable tests, they utilize a control (no cable or no circuit) and the listener does the switching. I have been facilitating double-blind cable tests for over ten years because they provide valuable answers when they’re done correctly. These answers include proof of the fact that it is possible to engineer audio cables that preserve fidelity far better than generic cables.
[ June 22, 2005, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: SweetnLow91SC ]
