A Debate on the many different aspects of sound
500 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 870
Engineers work with facts, and they work for a living. That means they have a boss that wants to sell speakers.
The fact is, unfortunately, that most of their product will be poorly installed, and/or installed by a do-it-yourselfer. Not to put down the inexperienced, but I've been installing for over 25 years, and I KNOW I'm still not doing it the best way it can be done; I just do the best I can.
Does the engineer design a speaker for the 1 or 2 percent of the total volume sold that will be installed the way he envisioned? or does he try to make a compromise to suit the majority of sales that will not live up to his personal dream, in order to satisfy the corporate dream of the one paying his salary?
Or does he design the ultimate system, and sponsor/support a wicked winning car, that will create a desire to own in the market place?
Does he design an application specific speaker, that will work incredibly well in one vehicle/location/enclosure, or one that can never be perfect, but will adapt to various vehicles/locations/install methods?
Just a few questions on the motivation of the engineers.
And why do they not publish specs on mid bass drivers?
I asked for input on measuring the T/S specs here, and the best I got was "I got it in a book at home". Not a direct quote, but another of Big Dave's truisms.
If proper enclosures were the norm, then I would assume that the experts here would have the means to achieve them. From what I've seen here so far, some of you are definately at the top of the heap.
For those of you unfamiliar with Big Dave (The Hulk) Snetzinger, he worked for me for a bit in Ottawa, shortly after winning the Canadian Championship (Rookie Class) in the early 90's.
He had a black CRX with way too many speakers (for my taste), but lots of tricks, and a keen sense. He had no( I mean none!!!) experience in the car audio industry, but he managed somehow to fill his driveway with trophies.
Dave had a large influence in my turning high end, and he had a lot of catchy sayings ....like " Sounds good, if you say it fast!", or "I knew a girl like that once"
'Specially funny if someone called a speaker "tight, or loose, or sloppy, or....well you get the point.
But I digress....The Lamble Ramble strikes again....My name's Charlie, by the way, and I hope to someday meet you all.
So what was the design philosophy of the engineers that make all the speaker?
I see your point DWVW, but I think the design philosophy is a bit of a secret with most of em, and a lot of em have a "cutest model" philosophy.
[ February 26, 2005, 01:53 AM: Message edited by: Car Trek ]
The fact is, unfortunately, that most of their product will be poorly installed, and/or installed by a do-it-yourselfer. Not to put down the inexperienced, but I've been installing for over 25 years, and I KNOW I'm still not doing it the best way it can be done; I just do the best I can.
Does the engineer design a speaker for the 1 or 2 percent of the total volume sold that will be installed the way he envisioned? or does he try to make a compromise to suit the majority of sales that will not live up to his personal dream, in order to satisfy the corporate dream of the one paying his salary?
Or does he design the ultimate system, and sponsor/support a wicked winning car, that will create a desire to own in the market place?
Does he design an application specific speaker, that will work incredibly well in one vehicle/location/enclosure, or one that can never be perfect, but will adapt to various vehicles/locations/install methods?
Just a few questions on the motivation of the engineers.
And why do they not publish specs on mid bass drivers?
I asked for input on measuring the T/S specs here, and the best I got was "I got it in a book at home". Not a direct quote, but another of Big Dave's truisms.
If proper enclosures were the norm, then I would assume that the experts here would have the means to achieve them. From what I've seen here so far, some of you are definately at the top of the heap.
For those of you unfamiliar with Big Dave (The Hulk) Snetzinger, he worked for me for a bit in Ottawa, shortly after winning the Canadian Championship (Rookie Class) in the early 90's.
He had a black CRX with way too many speakers (for my taste), but lots of tricks, and a keen sense. He had no( I mean none!!!) experience in the car audio industry, but he managed somehow to fill his driveway with trophies.
Dave had a large influence in my turning high end, and he had a lot of catchy sayings ....like " Sounds good, if you say it fast!", or "I knew a girl like that once"
'Specially funny if someone called a speaker "tight, or loose, or sloppy, or....well you get the point.
But I digress....The Lamble Ramble strikes again....My name's Charlie, by the way, and I hope to someday meet you all.
So what was the design philosophy of the engineers that make all the speaker?
I see your point DWVW, but I think the design philosophy is a bit of a secret with most of em, and a lot of em have a "cutest model" philosophy.
[ February 26, 2005, 01:53 AM: Message edited by: Car Trek ]
500 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 870
Speaking of Daves, where is DM on this debate...I mean really...9 pages....I think we're losing touch. We were talking about enclosures , right? Could this be the "next phase" .... if we demand the knowledge, it will come!
Someone once told me that Japan aready knows what they'll be selling us for the next 25 years....they have to keep their employees employed. And they'll release the knowledge as they see fit.
[ February 26, 2005, 02:22 AM: Message edited by: Car Trek ]
Someone once told me that Japan aready knows what they'll be selling us for the next 25 years....they have to keep their employees employed. And they'll release the knowledge as they see fit.
[ February 26, 2005, 02:22 AM: Message edited by: Car Trek ]
Yankee
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
Engineers like to work in vacuums, with no external stimuli. No common sense, no product knowledge, no fieldwork. Engineer from a cubicle if possible, laugh at Dilbert, and textbooks are his only friend. Provide features you would want (again, no product knowledge) tell Marketing about the new special features but don’t write them down in the operator’s manual.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by DWVW:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by defro13:
dwvw, so the manufacturers are smart enough to design a 4" that will sound great in the lower dash of 1 car, the top of the dash in others, the kick panel in other and the door in others, those guys are pretty amazing [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img]
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by defro13:
dwvw, so the manufacturers are smart enough to design a 4" that will sound great in the lower dash of 1 car, the top of the dash in others, the kick panel in other and the door in others, those guys are pretty amazing [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img]
Guest
Posts: n/a
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dukk:
[QB] ^ You seem to follow all their suggestions without question and rely on them to validate your system design so obviously you truly feel this way [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
Although, and feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood, you support the notion that the manufacturers all design their drivers to work in some sort of enclosure even though 99.99% of them will never be installed in one. [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img]
i was simply asking dwvw a question to make sure that i understood right. heaven forbid that someone would rely on the person who designed a particular to help with a application method and validate its possible effectiveness, i mean what would they know, right [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img] . and im pretty sure that i never said that 99.99% of manufacturers designed speakers for some sort of enclosure, what i said is that most of the mid to high end components would be bettter suited in a non ib application if a desirable box volume could be attained, im pretty sure as well that those speakers dont make up 99.99% of the speakers designed and built
[QB] ^ You seem to follow all their suggestions without question and rely on them to validate your system design so obviously you truly feel this way [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
Although, and feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood, you support the notion that the manufacturers all design their drivers to work in some sort of enclosure even though 99.99% of them will never be installed in one. [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img]
i was simply asking dwvw a question to make sure that i understood right. heaven forbid that someone would rely on the person who designed a particular to help with a application method and validate its possible effectiveness, i mean what would they know, right [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img] . and im pretty sure that i never said that 99.99% of manufacturers designed speakers for some sort of enclosure, what i said is that most of the mid to high end components would be bettter suited in a non ib application if a desirable box volume could be attained, im pretty sure as well that those speakers dont make up 99.99% of the speakers designed and built
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
Car Trek,
I have measured a 6.5" midbass to run FLAT down to 30hz at 115 db in-car. The said midbass has an Fs of 65hz, and is mounted IB.
I can see you have put a lot of work into preparing and actually building your door pods. Keep the pictures coming, it's good to see unique approaches to building in different cars.
...and I wouldn't worry about the Japanese, I'd worry about the Chinese.
Adam
[ February 26, 2005, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: PEI330Ci ]
I have measured a 6.5" midbass to run FLAT down to 30hz at 115 db in-car. The said midbass has an Fs of 65hz, and is mounted IB.
I can see you have put a lot of work into preparing and actually building your door pods. Keep the pictures coming, it's good to see unique approaches to building in different cars.
...and I wouldn't worry about the Japanese, I'd worry about the Chinese.
Adam
[ February 26, 2005, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: PEI330Ci ]
Guest
Posts: n/a
and im pretty sure that i never said that 99.99% of manufacturers designed speakers for some sort of enclosure
what i said is that most of the mid to high end components would be bettter suited in a non ib application if a desirable box volume could be attained
For your reference this is what I said:
you support the notion that the manufacturers all design their drivers to work in some sort of enclosure even though 99.99% of them will never be installed in one.
As for your 4" mounting thing with Dereck - all of the locations you list are off axis applications so I would have to think: yes they do make a driver for all those spots - it's just the same driver for all 3.
I have a legitimate question though (rather than just arguing for 9 pages
) Do you have any build pictures of your door enclosures? Can you post them? I suppose I should check your SD page..
Guest
Posts: n/a
^I'm not talking in circles - just slowly and deliberately so you can keep up [img]tongue.gif[/img]
lol - burn
Anyway - well yeah, hell let's see them. Car Trek (I think it was) seems to be up to his elbows in this and maybe it will inspire others.
lol - burn
Anyway - well yeah, hell let's see them. Car Trek (I think it was) seems to be up to his elbows in this and maybe it will inspire others.
