Subwoofer brands, please explain this to me ..................
01-21-2005, 11:07 AM
#21
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 146
Adire does a lot more than just pick parts from a catalog and tell someone to build them. I can't say the same for eD. Their products also cost less and have a decent warranty ('cept that it's more difficult to return items).
A lot of these products are also scrutinized and tested just as closely, if not more so, since they're often bought by more hardcore enthusiasts who do DIY.
The customer service is usually pretty good, since that's one of the only ways they have to communicate with someone - there's no storefront to go to, to actually talk to someone face-to-face.
As for a retail storefront, I'd say that the better option is to get in a well established brand that most people know, understand and trust. It depends on who your target customer is too.
A lot of these products are also scrutinized and tested just as closely, if not more so, since they're often bought by more hardcore enthusiasts who do DIY.
The customer service is usually pretty good, since that's one of the only ways they have to communicate with someone - there's no storefront to go to, to actually talk to someone face-to-face.
As for a retail storefront, I'd say that the better option is to get in a well established brand that most people know, understand and trust. It depends on who your target customer is too.
01-21-2005, 11:12 AM
#22
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 146
Originally posted by loudtdi:
Rockford manufactures their woofers in Michigan...they wind their own voice coils even. Rockford has a brand state of the art r&d and manufacturing facility for 2005.
They also are the #2 volume sub/speaker manufacture in the world. (behind pioneer).
Rockford manufactures their woofers in Michigan...they wind their own voice coils even. Rockford has a brand state of the art r&d and manufacturing facility for 2005.
They also are the #2 volume sub/speaker manufacture in the world. (behind pioneer).
01-21-2005, 11:15 AM
#23
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,078
I sit astride the fence, for me being able to buy something at a store is very important. If I walk into a well-established store and they are selling RF next to Adire, fine by me, I'll choose the better quality/price offering, usually. Obviously, this is usually not the case, but anyhoo....
I have a question/comment to pose:
If the laws of mass production and large companies dictate that a company like RF or pioneer, due to sheer volume, 'should' be able to produce a product which they can sell at a lower price point than a company that produces (or assembles or whatever) only a couple hundred of a given item (IE Adire Brahma or soemthing), why is this not the case?
The average 'basement branded' woofer delivers better quality (on paper) then a similarly priced mass-produced brand name.
Conversly, the bigger brand product at the same quality level as the basement brand generally costs much more.
So I mean for myself, if I were to purchase new and had all the choices in front of me, and all things like availability and such being equal, Obviously I would choose the better, cheaper brand, who wouldnt?
Why can't RF or any other company see this?
Is it fair to pawn off on the consumer the usual company lines about advertising budget and R/D budget when the 'ubuy' speakers are better quality and often of better design?
Or does it just not affect the bottom line enough to matter?
I could imagine the market share of these 'off brands' being so small that RF or Pioneer or whatever just dont bother to acknowledge them as competitor's.
I could also imagine issues like worker wages, union affiliations, and all the stuff mentioned regarding production quality being at issue, as well?
Anyhow, my 2 cents.
I have a question/comment to pose:
If the laws of mass production and large companies dictate that a company like RF or pioneer, due to sheer volume, 'should' be able to produce a product which they can sell at a lower price point than a company that produces (or assembles or whatever) only a couple hundred of a given item (IE Adire Brahma or soemthing), why is this not the case?
The average 'basement branded' woofer delivers better quality (on paper) then a similarly priced mass-produced brand name.
Conversly, the bigger brand product at the same quality level as the basement brand generally costs much more.
So I mean for myself, if I were to purchase new and had all the choices in front of me, and all things like availability and such being equal, Obviously I would choose the better, cheaper brand, who wouldnt?
Why can't RF or any other company see this?
Is it fair to pawn off on the consumer the usual company lines about advertising budget and R/D budget when the 'ubuy' speakers are better quality and often of better design?
Or does it just not affect the bottom line enough to matter?
I could imagine the market share of these 'off brands' being so small that RF or Pioneer or whatever just dont bother to acknowledge them as competitor's.
I could also imagine issues like worker wages, union affiliations, and all the stuff mentioned regarding production quality being at issue, as well?
Anyhow, my 2 cents.
01-21-2005, 11:21 AM
#24
2000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,357
The problem I see from the cult following is most SPL'ers(not all) buy in bulk from the internet, not your everyday retail store, if you want to sell 2 subs all day to high school kids then I guess Rockford’s your choice (or MTX this year, nice amps!)
Too bad you’re going the way of every other store in your area. With the custom installs you can offer you need to bring in a different clientele, that will pay for your work (part time at Mickey D's don't do it)
Too bad you’re going the way of every other store in your area. With the custom installs you can offer you need to bring in a different clientele, that will pay for your work (part time at Mickey D's don't do it)
01-21-2005, 12:15 PM
#25
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 467
Originally posted by Hardwrkr:
Cutomer Service;
I've personally bought form RE. When I was looking into box suggestions I gave them a call to find out what would work best for my application. When I called they were busy helping someone else and instead of putting me on hold and making me pay for a long distance call they said they would call ME back. They called me from Las Vegas maybe five minutes later and spoke with me without any rush, answered all my questions in detail and gave me some extra advice. JL, MTX, Alpine, etc. ever do things like this for the little guy? Good luck.
Cutomer Service;
I've personally bought form RE. When I was looking into box suggestions I gave them a call to find out what would work best for my application. When I called they were busy helping someone else and instead of putting me on hold and making me pay for a long distance call they said they would call ME back. They called me from Las Vegas maybe five minutes later and spoke with me without any rush, answered all my questions in detail and gave me some extra advice. JL, MTX, Alpine, etc. ever do things like this for the little guy? Good luck.
I know that some of the larger manufacturers out there strive for great customer service because that is what can make or break a customer. That is also why they have 800 numbers so you don't have to even waste your dime to call them in the first place, then if they are busy, they will call you back no matter where you live.
[ January 21, 2005, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: CondomBoy. ]
01-21-2005, 12:52 PM
#26
Yankee
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 44
There's many sides to every world in retail.
I think the biggest reason for the success of companies like these is becuase it's enthusiast driven like RF was once, like Zapco still is today, and like JL is.
Not everyone prefers the retail sales world anymore. In every facet of buying and selling. Some people are more comfortable buying online with a return it if you don't like it policy than buying from a wal mart. Why? Who knows, that's the human condition, it's odd.
These companies you mentioned grew likely by offering to a niche in the market large companies didn't, or from working like madmen to 'make it'.
The parts issue fact is none of the companies in this thread do everything from start to finish. Something is sourced in one way or another.
I'd say the more obvious thing in this thread is in above post.
"I could imagine the market share of these 'off brands' being so small that RF or Pioneer or whatever just dont bother to acknowledge them as competitor's."
It's very valid. Why worry about the table scraps when your eating prime rib.
The table scraps are what forging companies are built on. I spent my day yesterday building speakers and testing out which cryoacrylic works best with a new surround tooling / material by trial and error. Things like this are not uncommon around here. People are always looking for something different.
When you 'make it' you lose the clients who want something small. A company they can call and ask for the person who knows every facet of every part of every product they offer. Not a trained sales person paying for college.
No one company is every going to have every single customer. It's plain as that. The same person who buys RF isn't going to buy a eD product unless they got the RF off ebay likely. And the same person who drops 10k on a awesome glass install isn't going to call us for woofers.
Different markets. Different customers. Diversity in distrobution make up for a LOT of small companies in this world.
And while we are built on a very simple direct structure RE and Adire keep in mind have a good dealer base, based around the same ideas as JL, or RF, with resellers and the like where resellers are picking the product up and having great success with it. Probably becuase people want something different.
As is life. No 2 customers are exactly the same and the same guy who wants to drop 10k on a install for whatever reason doesn't buy from the same company as the guy who researches for 6 months, puts it in himself, and at 3AM in his underwear wants to talk about suspensions.
Only a small handful of companies in this world build everything from scratch. None of the companies listed above do either and they all started somewhere.
options options options. Good thing I guess is there is something for everyone.
I think the biggest reason for the success of companies like these is becuase it's enthusiast driven like RF was once, like Zapco still is today, and like JL is.
Not everyone prefers the retail sales world anymore. In every facet of buying and selling. Some people are more comfortable buying online with a return it if you don't like it policy than buying from a wal mart. Why? Who knows, that's the human condition, it's odd.
These companies you mentioned grew likely by offering to a niche in the market large companies didn't, or from working like madmen to 'make it'.
The parts issue fact is none of the companies in this thread do everything from start to finish. Something is sourced in one way or another.
I'd say the more obvious thing in this thread is in above post.
"I could imagine the market share of these 'off brands' being so small that RF or Pioneer or whatever just dont bother to acknowledge them as competitor's."
It's very valid. Why worry about the table scraps when your eating prime rib.
The table scraps are what forging companies are built on. I spent my day yesterday building speakers and testing out which cryoacrylic works best with a new surround tooling / material by trial and error. Things like this are not uncommon around here. People are always looking for something different.
When you 'make it' you lose the clients who want something small. A company they can call and ask for the person who knows every facet of every part of every product they offer. Not a trained sales person paying for college.
No one company is every going to have every single customer. It's plain as that. The same person who buys RF isn't going to buy a eD product unless they got the RF off ebay likely. And the same person who drops 10k on a awesome glass install isn't going to call us for woofers.
Different markets. Different customers. Diversity in distrobution make up for a LOT of small companies in this world.
And while we are built on a very simple direct structure RE and Adire keep in mind have a good dealer base, based around the same ideas as JL, or RF, with resellers and the like where resellers are picking the product up and having great success with it. Probably becuase people want something different.
As is life. No 2 customers are exactly the same and the same guy who wants to drop 10k on a install for whatever reason doesn't buy from the same company as the guy who researches for 6 months, puts it in himself, and at 3AM in his underwear wants to talk about suspensions.
Only a small handful of companies in this world build everything from scratch. None of the companies listed above do either and they all started somewhere.
options options options. Good thing I guess is there is something for everyone.
01-21-2005, 01:43 PM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by hobbes26:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by loudtdi:
Rockford manufactures their woofers in Michigan...they wind their own voice coils even. Rockford has a brand state of the art r&d and manufacturing facility for 2005.
They also are the #2 volume sub/speaker manufacture in the world. (behind pioneer).
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by loudtdi:
Rockford manufactures their woofers in Michigan...they wind their own voice coils even. Rockford has a brand state of the art r&d and manufacturing facility for 2005.
They also are the #2 volume sub/speaker manufacture in the world. (behind pioneer).
Regarding service - sure at first glance maybe one could say that the "Corporate Machine" of MTX/MITEK or ROCKFORD may not service as well as a specialty brand but I know that the people at SCL and KORBON will dislocate a hip to make sure a customer is completely pleased with their product.
Most of the time any sort of friction a consumer has with a warranty repair is due to the dealer. I know, back in the day, I had product flat out denied warranty by a dealer when the manufacturer would have easily covered it.
On the flipside - as a retailer how much service do I want to give the rabid dicksmack swearing at me on the other side of the counter cuz his $49 speakers that I neither manufactured, recommended, nor installed blew up on him and now it is supposed to be 'my' problem. [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img]
01-21-2005, 02:09 PM
#29
Originally posted by CondomBoy.:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hardwrkr:
Cutomer Service;
I've personally bought form RE. When I was looking into box suggestions I gave them a call to find out what would work best for my application. When I called they were busy helping someone else and instead of putting me on hold and making me pay for a long distance call they said they would call ME back. They called me from Las Vegas maybe five minutes later and spoke with me without any rush, answered all my questions in detail and gave me some extra advice. JL, MTX, Alpine, etc. ever do things like this for the little guy? Good luck.
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hardwrkr:
Cutomer Service;
I've personally bought form RE. When I was looking into box suggestions I gave them a call to find out what would work best for my application. When I called they were busy helping someone else and instead of putting me on hold and making me pay for a long distance call they said they would call ME back. They called me from Las Vegas maybe five minutes later and spoke with me without any rush, answered all my questions in detail and gave me some extra advice. JL, MTX, Alpine, etc. ever do things like this for the little guy? Good luck.
I know that some of the larger manufacturers out there strive for great customer service because that is what can make or break a customer. That is also why they have 800 numbers so you don't have to even waste your dime to call them in the first place, then if they are busy, they will call you back no matter where you live. </font>[/QUOTE]I've spoken to the guys at Adire via telephone and been in touch with the ED crew via email on more than one occassion. Does that answer your question?
For people that want to deal with a store directly that they can just walk into and get service here's just one example of why many may choose to go the internet way
http://www.canadiancaraudio.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=010049
Like what was said earlier it may not be the company's fault as the dealer many times is to blame but what is the consumer to do? How can you be angry at the customer for trying new places to purchase if they've been treated like this from their favourite store who they thought was on their side?
01-21-2005, 02:18 PM
#30
^ I agree I've bought stuff from internet manufacturers. Bought an inhuman from Db Don, 10a sub from ed, an a bunch of other stuff from online retailers. I've never had one problem with customer service or anything.
That is one reason why I continue to shop online.
I still shop at normal stores as well, but I've had a few bad customer service experiences, especially when I was paying the extra money to get a warranty...etc. I have had good experiences too, actually theres a local 2001 audio/video that I've given a lot of busines too because their audio guy is very helpful, and has even ordered me in a few things they don't even keep in stock, oh and usually will give me a good deal
I don't need to go into specifics, but there is a reason why online retailers are becoming more popular.
And I don't need to be told that I need warranty because the mechanical face on my HU will break, thanks FS, it's good that you guys would say that your stuff is gonna break lol. (Just saying when u buy something online, u don't gotta go through a lot of the bs you do in person).
That is one reason why I continue to shop online.
I still shop at normal stores as well, but I've had a few bad customer service experiences, especially when I was paying the extra money to get a warranty...etc. I have had good experiences too, actually theres a local 2001 audio/video that I've given a lot of busines too because their audio guy is very helpful, and has even ordered me in a few things they don't even keep in stock, oh and usually will give me a good deal
I don't need to go into specifics, but there is a reason why online retailers are becoming more popular.And I don't need to be told that I need warranty because the mechanical face on my HU will break, thanks FS, it's good that you guys would say that your stuff is gonna break lol. (Just saying when u buy something online, u don't gotta go through a lot of the bs you do in person).
